One of my friends in ministry, who is also a lurker on my blog, emailed me today with a question/observation. This one should generate some conversation. And, for that reason, he’s chosen to remain nameless. Let’s just call him "Mr. Nameless Lurker Ministry Guy." Here’s what Mr. Nameless Lurker Ministry Guy had to say:
"I’m curious to know if you are aware of any posts on blogs or articles or books that address progressive, cutting edge worship music/styles. In my search on the Internet I seem to be able to find a lot of people that are all saying the same stuff, and quite frankly, it’s very boring. It has a grain of truth but seems to lack thorough logic and misses all consideration for unchurched people. Do you know of anyone addressing cutting edge, progressive worship?"
Here are a few observations that I’ll offer to hopefully fuel the conversation:
- Generally speaking, worship music doesn’t sound like the music I hear on the Top 40 radio channels. I would obviously expect the lyrics to be different, but stylistically, contemporary Christian/worship music sounds very…well…Christian.
- Does worship music necessarily have to be slower, contemplative music? Is it possible to express worship in music using up-tempo, more-energetic songs?
- Should we be more sensitive to the lyrics of the worship songs we use when our services are trying to connect with people who are unchurched? For example, one of my favorite worship songs is "Marvelous Light" by Charlie Hall. Even thought I love the song, I’m wondering whether or not the lyrics may be too confusing for someone who’s unchurched. For example: "I once was fatherless, a stranger with no hope;" or "Your love it beckons deeply, a call to come and die;" or "My dead heart now is beating, My deepest stains now clean." Is it possible to worship God while remaining sensitive to people who are not yet Christ-followers?
Give me your thoughts. Are there places in the blogosphere that Mr. Nameless Lurker Ministry Guy and I can visit where there’s a helpful conversation on this topic? If not, let’s start one here. What role, if any, does worship music have in reaching the unchurched? Is it working today? If not, why?
UPDATE: I think this is an important conversation for us to be having, so I’m bumping it up to the top of my home page. Let’s keep the dialogue going.
Is worship music about the lost or God? Who do we worship?
It might just be my personality type, but I think curiosity can be a great draw for non-church people. Sure they need enough clarity at some point of the attraction process, but until they become enculturated into the faith there are some things they just won’t get. And that’s ok.
I confess that I don’t get a lot of contemporary pop music. I don’t understand the words at least half the time, and when I do I still don’t get it. It’s not my culture.
This is not to say that some churches – or some worship events/services at churches – won’t be bridge events. My guess is the key to bridge worship will be bridge people – people who have either recently come to Christ out of that culture or cross cultural ministries who have learned the language.
I agree with both people who commented before me – I think corporate worship was biblically intended for believers to gather together (singing or not) to worship God, but also some people will be drawn to the mystery of it and perhaps it will lead them down a spiritual journey of questions.
What I have heard outside of the little Christian bubble is that all the happy, polished songs seem to turn most of my unsaved friends off. They seem phony and rehearsed – like everyone is happy. and life is great.
I think a lot of it depends on the culture – my friends would lean more towards the stripped down, keep the lights off them “genre” of music whereas my mom really likes the contemporary…let’s clap our hands and smile…stuff.
I don’t know any blogsphere places to go where this specific conversation is going on but I’m always up for a good one! Just a couple thoughts. At our church we are very tuned in to people who don’t know Christ yet and that is our main target. We hold that someone who doesn’t know Christ can’t Worship(yet). But WE CAN show them what Worship is and teach them about what it means , and who we Worship and why. So in saying that we try to balance the line between being relevant to that person (who doesn’t know God) musically and lyrically and being honoring and glorifying to God. Worship is showing God his worth so tempo of song is inconsequential to me, it shouldn’t matter. It really shouldn’t be about music at all. And it certainly shouldn’t be about us. It should be all about him. One of the questions we wrestle with is teaching people (all people) that ITS ALL WORSHIP. Your life is Worship (or should be).Too many times people think the music is the worship. We’d love to get to the place that no matter what art form or teaching style was used that people would engage and Worship in that. Even if it meant no music that day. The role I think it plays is ….music is a hugely powerful part of the human condition and in a lot of peoples lives it connects them to all sorts of things on all sorts of levels. Listen to the radio and you can hear a song from 15 years ago and probably tell me exactly what you were doing the first time you heard it. And for a lot of people it is there #1 way of connecting with Christ ( which is very cool!) So from a stewardship standpoint it’s imperative that the church harness that and use it to point people towards Christ in a way they understand.( while of course Worshipping :) )
As a worship leader myself, I just couldn’t resist commenting on this one…it’s in my blood! ; )
First off, I’d like to say that worship music is not a tempo or style of song. I think there are types of worship music that are defined by tempo…which I call celebrative and meditative. (I think you can guess which is which!) I’d say that worship music is a song that connects your heart to God. We did “In The Air Tonight” by Phil Collins not too long ago to kick off a service. It was powerful and effective.
In regards to the question you’ve posted, I have to say that worship is for God, first and foremost. We have been created to worship Him. So we must make sure that our worship is biblical and also explores the many facets of who God is and what we have in Christ. That said, if God’s people are worshiping as we should (which is in spirit and in truth), I sincerely believe that the non-Christ-follower’s heart will be softened toward God, even if just a little bit. As one commenter said above, their curiousity will be peaked.
I have seen firsthand at the church I am at (TrueNorth Church in N. Augusta, SC) that the power of worship evangelism is very strong. What better way for someone who does not know Christ to be introduced to Him than by seeing Christ-followers worshiping Him in total surrender!
These are great thoughts, but let me help focus this conversation. Let’s assume for the sake of this conversation that Christ-followers are worshipping God through the music. And, let’s assume that there are unchurched people that are attending the services. Richard said, “I confess that I don’t get a lot of contemporary pop music. I don’t understand the words at least half the time, and when I do I still don’t get it. It’s not my culture.” I’m suggesting those that are unchurched view “our music” that same way because they don’t understand the words and stylistically the music doesn’t sound like the music they’re listening to on a daily basis.
Is it possible that music could exist for us to worship God while at the same time being stylistically appealing and lyrically understandable for the unchurched? Or, are we always going to have our version of “hymns” that only appeal to a segment of our Christian culture?
tony
Thanks for starting the topic Tony. I am too much of wuss to do it on my blog!:)
I think that the direction of the “seeker” has changed since churches started becoming seeker-friendly/driven/targeted. Twenty years ago, the focus was on the boomers who were running from anything that smelled spiritual. To reach them, it was sometimes necessary to remove certain “spritual” obstacles – crosses, Biblical language, worship music, ect.
This generation has a different mindset. They are seeking something spiritual. They are not sure what that is yet – which explains the popularity of Oprah – but they know they want something that is bigger than themselves.
For the most part, they are not hung up on symbolism and imagery, because those things do not have the same conotations as before. We have seen this trend at Seacoast and have actually added worship elements and rituals into our weekend services. This has totally transformed the way people worship in our church. They now have the opportunity to immediately respond to what God is doing in their lives. I cry every week as I watch people physically nail their sins and struggles to the cross during the worship time; as they gather as a family around the communion table to partake of the Lord’s Supper together.
This generation longs to worship something or someone, it is up to us to help them worship a risen Savior.
Honestly, I don’t think the unchurched pay as much attention to the lyrics as we think they do (At least the unchurched people I come in contact with don’t). What they are _totally_ honed in on, however, is the authenticity of the worshipers. A church that is completely sold out to a Holy and Perfect God, and is consistently lost in who He is and what He has done will do infinitely more to attract an unbeliever than an Eagles cover tune.
I’d submit that the _worst_ thing we could do is choose lyrics that simply appeal to unbelievers for two reasons. (1) The church has a history of doing “cover songs” very, very badly. Nothing is a bigger turn-off than a good song ruined. (2) But probably more importantly, unbelievers typically show up to our churches because they’re looking for something different. If we choose to program music that is “understandable,” but doesn’t explicitly apply to what the church is all about, it suddenly because “un-understandable” in the sense that someone looking for something different doesn’t find it.
I think that part of the challenge of music reaching anyone, churched or unchurched is that music, as purely an artistic expression doesn’t have to resolve or take someone anywhere – it just has to be what the artist created, their expression.
It is why I think so many people identify with artists who express themselves in either positive/negative ways. Artists often do a fantastic job of conveying the depth of emotions ( anger, frustration, joy, etc) that someone is feeling in a situation, but there is no expectation on that artist to bring that person to a resolution, or to help them sort through their pain.
Worship on the other hand, has the same elements of expression, yet by nature must bring someone somewhere – not just leave them in their pain for example. It has to for better lack of a word resolve (at least on some levels to be meaningful, or else the focus is left on them).
And I think that is part of the reason why we have this divsion between worship & merely an artistic expression. And it could be that is why it seems that the church/unchurched are difficult to communicate to through worship in our services. One is looking to resolve, the other perhaps just knows to express (generalizing I know)
I do think you can merge the two in profoundly meaningful ways, but that is for someone else to discuss :-)
We are called by God to worship Him. Singing is but one of the ways to do it. I think that our call to reach the unchurched is about creating environments where God is present – and where someone who is far from Him can be drawn nearer to Him.
Now – when it comes to what kind of music to pick for worship songs, well… I think that depends on the artist. Since it is an art, it is subjective. What the artist must do is do something that seems pure, or at least honest. Even then, some people won’t like it. But others will.
Someone once asked me what kind of art we had at our church, and as the arts director, I said “we do stuff that…I like.”
One hopes that the artists on staff and as volunteers are passionate about reaching the culture, and passionate about what kind of art they make. That combination makes for art that can change lives, and I think Go dcan honor that even if the chords are familiar and the lyrics have a tint of hymnology to them…
Tony -
Great conversation topic. I love worship after all, I am a facedownworshipper.
In my opinion, worship has nothing to do with the music style. It has everything to with our heart and attitude towards God. Worship is not intended for the the Christ-follower or the unbeliever, its sole purpose is to well give God worth, to kiss towards God.
Louie Giglio says it best, “everyone is a worshipper, we can’t not worship.” It is how we direct our worship. It does have more to do with the indvidual who worship God with their own personal expression than it does with what is play from the stage or the iPod. I can worship with Savin’ Me by Nickelback as well as Here I Am To Worship by Matt Redman or the 30 other people who have done this song, I direct my words and and heart towards God.
As far as the the unchurched or the unbeliever stepping into our services, we really can’t expect them to worship a God that they don’t know with whatever style, and each style is personal or subjective (i.e. country, rock, hip hop or Jazz, Top 40 plays it all, so what “true” style is out there.) However if the believer’s worship is genuine and the church or lead worshipper teaches along the way I believe it gives a greater understanding of what worship is truly all about.
To be continued…
As I continue…we are called to come into His gates with thanksgiving, into His courts with praise and to His throne with worship. Throughout the book of Psalms and the Bible for that matter we are given many different expressions of praise & worship, i.e. facedown, hands lifted up, etc. So, it has everything to with the affection of our worship…God and attitude of our hearts. So, style has absolutely nothing to do with it. Savin’ Me, Jesus Take the Wheel, How Great Thou Art(classic) and Here I am To Worship, wow what a set, but how about our hearts.
Finally, I want us as Christ followers to be careful with our critizism of fellow Christ follower who are using their gifts and producing personal works of art and music towards God. Remember, these are people’s personal testimonies, acts of adoration, spiritual hymn, and psalms. We should all strive for excellence in our art, preaching, leading or whatever it is we all do, but remember what someone does is their own work using their gifts and talents. What we like (style) others may not. What others may be touched or blessed by we may may not. Sounds like church and ministry. Yes, we need to raise the bar of excellence but let us not destroy and discourage fellow Christ followers in the process.
All done… :-)
Later,
Chris
Good topic! There’s a big difference between what praise and worship should sound like and what christian music on the radio should sound like.
There has been a new trend in the church to move praise and worship of our God and Creator to entertainment to draw in the crowds.
Now there can certainly be things we do to draw in the crowds…no, there should be things we do to draw in crowds. One of those things must not be to push praise and worship aside and put on a concert instead. God wants our praise and our worship. He is deserving of it. Don’t turn it into something else.
When there is a true spirit of praise and worship, people will be drawn to it for when that happens the Spirit dwells with us and we are either drawn to that or repelled by it.
Psa 40:3 “He has put a new song in my mouth—Praise to our God; Many will see it and fear, And will trust in the LORD.”
If we praise and worship God, seekers will see it and trust in God! The question is, is your praise drawing people to Christ?
I agree with so much here. There has to be a blend of authentic worship with an authentic sound that is relevant to your context.
I heard a talk by Ron Martoia (“Morph”) once and he said ministry was moving more indigenous, meaning that what churches could learn from other churches (in other contexts) would be less and less over time. It’s very easy to critique other church’s musical styles and tastes, but each church should be studying their culture and worshipping authentically with a distinctly local flavor, whatever that might be.
Of course, a ton of music is produced and available nationally, so our local areas will always be affected by large movements or by popular bands. But we try to study our local culture and worship in ways that connect to the heart of God while simultaneously connecting to the ears of our people.
it feels really weird to read a post about questions you’ve been asking for years. i don’t think i’m part of a conversation, or even an authority in the least, but i have posted my thoughts on this blog for a while now. a lot of it is personal and has to do with what our church is working through, but if you would like to check it out, feel free.
Hi Tony,
KLOVE kills us in the church music biz. One small group of people decides what gets made and it seems like the big record companies pressure Christian artists to make “Christian” music–the same sound. The local church should be a place where unique and indigineous music thrives. But, look at the top songs. We all do them. “Here I Am to Worship” for instance or Tomlin, Crowder, etc. Modern worship, or not, we do the same stuff.
I really think though that the unchurched person is not as concerned about style as we are. We like to be “hip.” Really, our preferences drive things, not our neighbors. I think unchurched people want authentic. They also want to understand what we are singing and talking about. Within those parameters, there is A LOT of freedom.
My ministry does 5 services with three styles of music. Really, this is generationally driven. I would prefer one style. But, the trend is clear for most churches that are larger. Multi-everthing. We are the iPod church, in an age of mass customization.
BOTTOM LINE: we believers are less satisfied then those who are unchurched with the music that we worship with at church. If it is good and authentic and intelligable, then they will connect in some way. REAL worship, within this fence, attracts. The problem is our insecurity to be authentic.
Worship Music Need Fixin’?
Tony Morgan has begun a discussion about whether or not church worship music needs fixing: Does worship music need to be fixed? This is something that I have often talked about with fellow worship leaders and pastors over the last few years. In particu…
I believe the problem is the congregational model. Most churches won’t grow past a few hundred, but any church with more than a few dozen people find themselves working very hard to put on a show every week. This is not necessarily unbiblical, but it is certainly not prescribed in the Bible. We spend a LOT of resources to build big buildings and put on large productions, when those are NOT required to fulfill our calling.
The NT church consisted of home-based meetings, with *occasional* city-wide meetings. Both were primarily for believers. Our calling is not to be hip or do things that unbelievers can necessarily be impressed by, but to simply disciple believers and live life according to The Way. This points people to Jesus, not to megachurches with superstar bands and pastors.
Couple of things before we continue, I’m not going to let this dialogue become an attack on megachurches or small churches. I don’t think size matters for this conversation. Somebody else can feel free to start that debate on another blog if they’d like. It’s not going to happen here.
Secondly, I just want to acknowledge my agreement with several comments so far. I, too, believe that it’s helpful for people who are unchurched to see Christ-followers worshipping God…with or without music. So, in my mind, I’m assuming we all want that in our services.
Now, let me try to press the heart of this conversation a bit further. Let’s pretend we were launching a new church in India. Would we preach God’s word in English? Would we make people sing our worship songs? Or would we create worship music using their language and matching the music of their culture? The worship, as we agreed, would be for God. But, wouldn’t it be helpful if the lyrics and the music style fit the Indian culture? Or, should we force them to use our music style and sing it in English?
Now, let’s pretend we’re launching a church in middle-America. Should the music make sense lyrically to the culture where we are doing ministry? Should it stylistically be reflective of where we’re doing ministry?
I think our worship music has become more about us than about God. We’re creating songs that only make sense to us (some of it I don’t even understand) using a style that’s foreign to our culture. I don’t think my faith (or my worship) is supposed to be about me. My main objective in life is to love God and love others. Shouldn’t my life and my worship make sense to both God and others?
I’ll continue chiming in. Please keep posting your thoughts. This is helpful for me. I hope it’s helpful for you as well.
tony
First and foremost (as stated by others) worship music is about Him, not us.
Second, we must have worship music that “makes sense” to those who are “performing it” as an act of worship.
Third, our worship should make an impact on the culture around us.
Keeping those things in order, and taking your supposition of church planting in middle-America, I come up with this: Your going to start a church up, offer worship music that is relevant to the local culture, the church is going to grow out of those local people, and ten years from now that local church body is going to have its own “worship language.” Is this worship language/style still relevant to the local culture? Did this church become concerned with only points 1 & 2 and not 3? Did this body of believers focus only on 3? Did they keep all three in balance?
Yes, we are becoming more and more connected in our culture. I listen to the radio, watch 722 online, download music from worship leader blogs, print out charts from multiple sources, etc. The challenge is keeping the local church abreast of these resources in a meaningful way. Do I spoonfeed or forcefeed these incalculable resources to the people? Do I worry more about them knowing how to worship God regardless of musical style? Do I worry more about the people outside the walls thinking our music is cool (read: relevant)? Where’s the balance? (Add to all this, I’m currently in a place still fighting the blended worship war. That goes over real well in the local scene!)
The basic question you’re asking is assuming that a church has the resources with which to address musical style to begin with. Size (or a lack of it) is an important part of the question.
In terms of musical style, I absolutely believe that the choice of musical style is very much like the choice of language. I’ve talked about that on my blog quite a bit, actually. Choosing to do a particular musical style just because the believers in your midst prefer it that way would be like speaking in a foreign language.
The problem is, choosing between Spanish and English is quite unlike choosing between a guy with an acoustic guitar and a rock band with a sound system and light show that would rival any popular act in the middle of their tour. There’s a huge balancing act do deal with there. It takes a lot of work to find the right balance.
The issues surrounding trying to be relevant to unbelievers is quite simply a by-product of the congregational model, whether large or small, where the objective is to create an effective presentation. My point is, what if we aren’t even supposed to be worried about it?
Tony-
Your comment on starting a church in India is important. For some reason, when we (believers) do overseas mission work, we seem to understand the importance of culture. Like you said, worship in an Indian church should match the culture of India. Basic. However, sometimes we forget to apply that same principal here at home. Just a thought.
I Corinthians 1:18 says, “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
Everything we do for God and related to Him should be orderly, and sensible. But we must throw out the wisdom of the world when approaching the matter of reconcilling the world to Christ (II Corinthians 5:18).
We must 1) ask God for wisdom (James 1:5) and 2) Compare our practices on music with the commands of Scripture.
Yes, that may mean that our music may not be as relevant (or make sense, even) to this world. But didn’t Paul note in I Corinthinas 1:25 that “the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men”?
I will say that this doesn’t mean there isn’t any room for personal tastes, cultural variances, etc. But I would definitely call into question the use of the music of the world (U2, Phil Collins and the like) as an effort to “worship.”
The question shouldn’t be does this song make people feel good or make them want to come back for more. That’s great as a marketing plan for a restaurant or a brand. But we’re talking about the highest calling in the world working with the highest power in the world. So the question should be does it show Christ and Him crucified? Does it remind men of their sinful condition and their need for a Savior? Is it worthy of the majesty and beauty and glory of the Almighty, All-Knowing Creator and Savior of the Universe?
If you can play a top 40 tune as part of a worship service and the Holy Spirit doesn’t convict you of your sacrilege then one of us is wrong … because as Paul noted in 1 Corinthians 12:13, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
Matthew, this isn’t a conversation about whether or not secular music is appropriate to teach biblical principles about the topics of our day. (Though, it’s interesting that you would mention Paul, because he quoted secular poets when he was addressing the men of Athens in Acts 17.) That topic would be great conversation for another day or another blog. This conversation is about worship music.
tony
To clarify, I am speaking specifically about worship music. I do not believe that secular equals profane (please forgive me if I’ve suggested as much). I am simply trying to point out that just because it “makes sense” or “draws people in” doesn’t make it best — at least not when we’re talking about the things of God.
Here is an example…
We did a July 4 deal and opened the service with a color guard and Jimi Hendrix’s version of “The Star Spangled Banner” and some cheered at the end. Afterwards, some were concerned that we offended a “sacred” song.
The issue is not just with church music or Christian music. One style of music will NOT bring us all together.
My problem with striving to be more culturally relevant is, who’s culture am I going to relevant to? I’m in an area where I can walk up and down my street and hear many diverse types of music. (Which is a good thing.) But which group do I choose to cater to? The next door neighbor who is a jazz afficianado? The teen girl next door who is angry at the world and purely into rap music (hardcore/gansta)? The young couple across on the corner who front and play drums for an up and coming local rock band? The church member who lives down the cul-de-sac and sounds nearly identical to George Straight when he sings in our church (in full starched jeans and snakeskin boots no less)? The lady who’s been visiting our church, wants to join the choir, and has a background in opera? The young couple who comes to my Bible study class who loves Passion style stuff? The lady who’s been teaching 5 year olds for over 50 years (only missing 5 Sundays except for vacation) and misses the “great old hymns”?
By the way, I didn’t make any of those up. They are all very real, and they have all walked through the doors of our church. Who’s culture do I determine is more important to be “relevant” too. For some of us, the answer is not so easy. We no longer have one unified culture, if we ever really did.
I really like what Jeff said. I’ve seen some of the exact same issues.
Given the presentational style of worship we’re all used to, we have to “pick” a style for the entire body of believers, and people either have to like it or tolerate it. Kind of like preaching – you either like the style of preaching, you tolerate it, or you find another church.
A church gathering should be an atmosphere where all are encouraged to participate (in an orderly fashion). If you have musicians in your midst, they should have the opportunity to be involved. That way, your church remains “relevant” as young musicians get involved and bring in new expressions of worship.
In a presentational style of worship, this is simply not possible.
That’s why lately I’ve been questioning the basic assumptions of a presentational approach to ministry and worship.
I stumbled across your blog while I was doing some online research. I am also a Christian and, therefore, I appreciate Christian worship music. I’m not sure it would draw people to religion, however, even if they enjoy it.
Out of the worship music out there today that I’ve been exposed to, I think Hillsong UNITED would be the only ones that I would listen to if the words were different and “non-worship.”
It could be generational and I’m sure some discard them as too youth groupish, but I think they have to be considered as leaders in the “up-tempo” worship field.
The biggest thing I tend to evaluate for our unchurched audience is the language. My radar is up everywhere, including worship music. How “deep” are we intending to take them with “exclusive” Christian words that actually just go over their head? I know before I met Jesus, there were so many words that left me feeling like an outsider because I hadn’t learned what they meant. It was just one more thing that made me afraid of church. On the other side, I’m ALL ABOUT busting a new groove for our unchurched audience. Model a prayerful song. Slow or fast — it doesn’t matter. Demonstrate a conversation in song with God. Just use words anybody would know — inside or outside of church. Yes, worship is for God. But, He’s listening even if we don’t use fancy words. He is glorified even if we keep it simple.
Terry, from the UK, emailed me today with these comments:
“Your blog is asking about worship at the moment. Try Jonny Baker’s blog and its various links (http://jonnybaker.blogs.com/jonnybaker/).
“Is the term “emerging church / emerging worship a UK one or is it familiar to you ?
“For best UK contempoary Christian band try delirious (http://www.delirious.co.uk/)”
There you go. That’s Terry’s perspective from the other side of the Atlantic.
tony
I remember, many years ago, hearing Rick Warren say that worship is not singing songs. It is doing what God created us to do. If the purpose of the ‘church’ is to advance the Kingdom of God on the earth, then whatever we do to accomplish that is worshipping God. Having said that, any music we sing during a service that is designed to reach not-yet-believers should cause them to want to come back. Of course I am not saying that there are not limits to what I would deem acceptable in a service, but my point is, I am bothered by the fact that the biggest difference between most churches seems to be “worship” but in reality it is “music” which is only a small part of true worship. Can I get an Amen??
Jeff’s comments are right on point. We have so many different sub-cultures within our own American culture. Pop, Jazz, Hip-Hop, Country, Rock, Punk, etc. It’s really hard to have the one-size-fits-all mentality. That’s where the multi-site video venue can help in the process. Having multiple venues for the multiple cultures can open the doors for the unchurched. Where I live, a country-based worship venue would attract many who are far from God. Would it be okay for them to wear their cowboy hats in church?
I must be one of the few people left who LOVE the traditional hymns. They are the church songs that I grew up with, and their beautiful and poetic words are so meaningful to me. I like a lot of the contemporary music, but most of it seems to lack poetry and beauty. It sometimes seems so repetitious. Just my thoughts.
I confess, I haven’t read all the comments here, so somebody may have already said what I’m about to say. If so, I apologize.
Let me just pose a caution, as a young person. I’m in my mid-twenties, and I think that if I were still a seeker, a lot of the attempts to reach the modern culture would go right past me. What is relevant to every seeker, of every age, are two things: truth, and the Spirit of God.
I believe that those who are writing worship music should consider pleasing God’s heart. The music should be aimed at the heart of God. God is a “with it” guy, so I just say, follow His heart, and you’ll create beautiful music that reaches the lost and draws believers into worship. Isn’t it the Holy Spirit that draws people to the Father? So, follow the Spirit of God in writing the music, and in leading the worship. Worship in spirit and in truth. God knows the hearts of the worshipers, and He’ll lead you.
I really appreciate the Vineyard music. I know that the Vineyard folks expect God to reveal new songs to those who He has gifted to receive them, for the edification of the body of Christ. I think that’s why those songs are so effective.
God got me alone in my bedroom; that’s when and where I was drawn to Christ. But I remember being in a worship service before I accepted Jesus, and sensing the Spirit of God, and what I remember about that experience was that I felt a presence in the midst of the praises of His people–I have no idea what song they were singing. (I remember it being a contemporary type service, though.) But I have been in traditional services, since becomming a Christian, and sensing the Spirit of God there, too (in conviction, in motivation, etc) when meditating on the lyrics of old hymns. And the same still happens in contemporary worship services sometimes. But I’ve been in some services where I was not at all drawn into worship. Usually, in those situations, it’s because of my own weakness. But I’ve also been in services where I longed to worship God, and felt like I was the only one in the room who felt that way, including the “worship” leader (maybe these folks should be called “song leaders”), no matter the type of music.
I heard an expert on persecution recently say that those who have been most successful in overcoming in the midst of persecution have had a heart song that they sang to God. These were songs that God gave to the person. So, if you’re writing worship music, seek God’s heart.
I’m a simple person, not very insightful, not very “with it,” but this is my opinion. Worship to please God, not to reach the lost. Though God might use your worship to reach the lost, He could use even solitude.
Oh, one more thing: I do think it’s helpful to read a verse or two, or even just give a brief explanation, about some lyrics. I had to ask once, about a Third Day song, “What’s all this about hills? This song means nothing to me.” And our worship leader was very patient in explaining how God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, how Jesus died on a hill, etc. That’s it.
Generally speaking, worship music doesn’t sound like the music I hear on the Top 40 radio channels…
David Crowder Band
Leeland
Death Cab For Cutie
Does worship music necessarily have to be slower, contemplative music? Is it possible to express worship in music using up-tempo, more-energetic songs?
NO, YES, please
Should we be more sensitive to the lyrics of the worship songs we use when our services are trying to connect with people who are unchurched?
No worship music is for God, Hanging out at our house, going for coffee, helping someone fix their car, is for the unchurched. Jesus was cool to hang around with, He got the whole relationship thing, when he wanted to worship and pray, the bible mentions that he went off alone, no show.
Check out Los’ bands cover of Where is the Love. Link below Did the Black Eyed Peas write this in an attitude of worship? I am guessing not, but we can worship where true love comes from through this song.
http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/
Kevin wrote:
We did “In The Air Tonight” by Phil Collins not too long ago to kick off a service. It was powerful and effective.
Powerful and effective at what? Making you feel worshippy?
Leeland. Rend The Heavens. David Crowder. Delirious?
First of all i believe that we as Christian/Worship leaders/writers do need to make more quality music for worship (Leeland/Phil Wickham)! From my experiance leading worship with students, if you do not do more contemporary stuff they do not connect. I dont think you can play much if any of the cheese on christian radio, because its not worship. Its merely songs about God and being a Christian(not all but most)!
Secondly, not all songs need to be reflective and slow! Some people connect with God through a faster song easier, maybe they even tap their feet too it…or even DANCE! (God forbid!)
Finally, I think this is the biggest mistake in churches today. . .We try to target “seekers” through our worship??? Last time I checked worship is for GOD not for people! The other thing about most worship songs that I have noticed is that there are alot of personal pronouns… i.e. – Lord I need more of you, Start a fire in me, we are hungry, we worship you, we need you etc.) I think we need to write some songs like that (songs of desperation) but I think we need to rethink the fact that we are suppost to be singing to praise to God not focusing on us…
Being self centered people my nature I know it is hard to write music that is not about us, I have tried and its not easy
Just my thoughts. . .
I am soooo not a theologian, nor a Bible Scholar, but to my knowledge, the only thing I can recall as instruction for worship in the Bible is “in spirit and truth.” I bet if we quit worrying about all the details and just listen to what the Holy Spirit wants from us in our place and our time (not the church down the road or the one whose podcast you always download to see what you can do next week)…we will be fine. He will work through us and be glorified. The best thing is we take ourselves out of the picture so it is truly more of him — less of me.
Tony-
Kudos for starting this post! It’s been fun to keep up with the conversation. In our church, we deal with this issue all the time. As I work weekly with my worship leader/team on planning the worship set for the weekend, we filter our choices through several criteria.
First, we have a bunch of people attending our church who have little to no church background. They do not know most of the worship songs like most churchgoers know. So, we intentionally pick songs that are easy to pick up, songs that are not complex and tough to follow. Personally, I love a lot of the Vineyard worship, especially some of the older stuff, but many of those songs are difficult for visitors and the unchurched to pick up. (And I have to remember, It’s not about what I want)
Second, we are really aware of the content of the song. There have been a few times were we have not done a certain worship songs because it has some complex theological statements that most unchurched would not be able to grasp.
Third, we try to do a good mix of upbeat, loud, lively songs with some slower contemplative ones. (Personally, I like it loud and fast the whole time, but, it’s not about me)
Fourth, and most important, we pray. We pray the God shows up and His Spirit moves and works in the lives of everyone there. All we can do is line up the horses for battle. Victory is the Lord’s.
Anne nailed it! (As usual.)
I’ve enjoyed reading all the comments to this point. I think it’s worth pointing out that if Christ-followers in a local church have a place and time to sing songs focused on God (what we tend to be calling “worship” here), it creates a unique opportunity in a separate venue (i.e. – a weekend service focused on presenting the Good News of Jesus to people who are seeking for hope and meaning) to look at worship differently.
If a local church has only one service venue to communicate a relevant, eternal message of God’s grace, while Christians gather to sing – well, that may be a mix of values not easily sorted.
And yet, then again… the tendency to look at Scripture and somehow ignore culture and conclude some hard-core mimic of “worship” seems rather – well, self-supporting. Ann, your clarification that God wants worship (whether in song, conversation, work, play or relationship) that is “spirit-ual and true” is well taken.
Seems to me that really should motivate us to worship through the character of Christ – whose heart was for those who matter so much to God. Philippians 2 tells us that he gave up his rightful place – not just of worship, but the object of worship, to move into our neighborhood, communicate in our culture and give up his very life (not just his musical preferences, angelic hymns or divine rights) – for others.
Great conversation, Tony.
Mark Waltz
It is cool to see how this conversation has drifted. Even though it is pretty far away from the “music/style” question posed initially. I have watched quite a few Granger services online and I think we all know how important they see it to be culturally relevant to their congregation through music and visual arts. (That screen is sick by the way)
This conversation took place in a slightly different way on my blog a week or so ago. http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=412
I do not think it is an option to even think about not being culturally relevant in the way we present the Gospel. I know God can speak through any situation, but let’s at least give Him some help.
Los
P.S. I fluffed my bio some too T.
;)
The thought occurred to me that there are people following this conversation, especially those from Iowa, that may not be hip on the language that Los is using. When he says the screen is “sick,” what he really means is it’s “crazy, cool, insane.” I agree, Los. Uhhh… I mean… I’m down with that.
tony
Let me clarify on my comment – I didn’t mean we should ignore culture, I just meant that if we are still and listen, the Spirit will guide us in how we need to communicate to our culture.
The only question I have about being culturally relevant is this (and please don’t get me wrong, I agree that we should strive to “meet people where they are”):
What is more important? Being culturally relevant, or being authentic?
This is why I said that Anne nailed it. I think that if we are authentic in our relationship with God and our relationships with one another, then we are doing what we should be doing.
I’m a white boy who grew up in west Texas with a very conservative background and all the baggage that comes with it. If I try to be something I’m not in an effort to be “relevant”, an unchurched visitor is going to see right through me. In the same way, if a church body tries to be something it’s not just to “reach out” to the community, the community will see it for the fraud it is.
I just wanted to be comment 50.
Los
If you all want a blog that has been created specifically for the purpose of talking about this kind of topic regarding worship then check out
http://backtotheheart.wordpress.com/
This exact discussion and many others like it are needed, which is why I am starting this blog.
For me, the bottom line is worship is not for us and it has nothing to do with the worship leader or worship team, the music genre we use or how we can use worship to reach the lost.
Worship is completely and entirely about Christ and nothing but Christ. I believe the church overall has forgotten this and as a result I believe our worship has become very shallow and empty.
If you are concerned about the lost then we need to get back to the heart of worship and truly make it all about Jesus. Once we begin to do this, then and only then will the lost begin to see something in our worship services that is beyond what man is able to create.
When we try and fix or create our worship to become better or “MORE” on the outside, I believe we end up getting the opposite results. This is because, worship is about what’s going on in the inside or hearts of those involved, not what’s coming out of their mouths.
You can create the best worship service that is filled with the best music and the best lyrics for everyone involved and if no one takes ownership and truly mean’s what they are singing, then it becomes nothing more then a clanging symbol. It may sound like a really great clanging symbol, but it will be empty of any meaning.
My comments on evangelistic worship can be found here. Hopefully they can help bring some clarity to this confusing subject.
Well, he couldn’t take it any longer. Mr. Nameless Lurker Ministry Guy has finally decided to reengage in the conversation. Here are his continuing thoughts:
I obviously understand that a non-believer cannot worship God. However, “unchurched” does not mean “non-believer”. I’ve been a Christ follower since I was a child, however, there was a period of my life when I was “unchurched”, or, as some call it, “de-churched”. Regardless, the church is the bride of Christ. A bride is supposed to be attractive, put together, every detail in order, pure, etc. I think this should encompass all that we do…including, our music. So, here are some random thoughts and questions.
> Many pastors of contemporary churches prepare and deliver their sermons in a way that will connect with non-Christians and with Christians. Is it possible for our worship music to do the same? I think the lyrics are important for believers. However, the quality and style of the music is something that, regardless of the lyrics, can connect with all. So, a non-believer should be able to come to our churches and be surprised and thrilled with the quality and style of the music, regardless of lyrics. [TONY SAYS: I don't think it's a secret that I'm in agreement with Mr. Lurker here.
> Also, isn’t it odd that during the week I listen to all kinds of music (classic rock, alternative rock, European rock, country (rarely), etc.) and then I show up to church on the weekend and listen to a different style of music called “praise & worship”? Can’t I worship God with a style of music that I like and is of high quality? [TONY SAYS: I may have to distance myself from Mr. Lurker if he occasionally listens to country music.]
> Are Christian musicians creative enough to be creating a new, cutting edge style of music? Are we only capable of imitating what’s already been created? [TONY SAYS: We're already doing this with video at Granger. It's new and cutting edge. We have an unbelievably talented team of volunteers and staff who are pushing creative communications and visual worship elements to a completely new level. It's very exciting.]
> When are Chrisitan musicians going to write lyrics that connect with the average Joe? For example, I can’t imagine hearing two men say to each other, “I just want my lifesong to sing to God” and the reply, “yes, I just feel like my heart is crying out”. When will we have lyrics that are about real life? I understand that poetry and poetic lyrics are cool and all, but you know what I’m saying. [TONY SAYS: Amen! Today's worship music isn't very manly.]
> Isn’t it possible to worship God without saying or hearing word? Doesn’t the Bible talk about making a joyful noise? Isn’t a noise most likely a note rather than a lyric? Of course, lyrics are also mentioned in the Bible, so I’m not discounting the importance of them. [TONY SAYS: I don't know that there's disagreement in the conversation on this point.]
> Is worship about who we are, or is it about who God is? Or, is it both? [TONY SAYS: I'd say both if we follow David's example in the Psalms.]
> How do we measure worship? Are we only effective if the audience/congregation is standing for the entire music set? Or, if they are clapping, dancing, etc? I’m pretty sure I’ve worshipped on my own, in my car, sitting down, without saying a word. [TONY SAYS: Again, we're assuming we all agree worship is far more than singing. But, if we were focusing just on the singing, what do you think of Mr. Lurker's comments?]
> How important is the flow of music? How important is the emotion of the music? What about the ebb and flow of a combination of songs? Changes of tempo? Moments of just instrumentals? Maybe moments of silence? [TONY SAYS: Important.]
Those thoughts/questions should keep this dialogue going.
I have to keep reminding my worship leader that the number one priority for our worship is to engage and be engaged by the presence of God. Yes some of the music is dated and overplayed and even routine for some. But if I can experience the presence of God singing Kum-ba-ya (how do you spell that anyway?) then I want to sing it.
One real problem I see is not enoug people are either writing new music or do not have an outlet for it to be discovered. If God’s mercies are new every morning, seems to me there just might be a few new songs to write that people can relate to.
Culture and style changes. People change. But again, for me, the goal is the presence of God. I like to have our team begin with the end in mind.
Endless is this line of thinking. It begins with us and ends with us. Really, there is freedom to express worship in many ways. So this is like sharing our preferences for Mexican food verses Italian.
What the challenge is for us worship musicians, writers and leaders is to connect to our people and those we wish to reach while inviting them to a spiritual encounter. However, it is NOT possible to really satisfy ALL people’s preferences. This is really more about the worshipper, not the platform person.
Teaching about biblical worship to this gentleman’s congregation might solve these questions or allow a deeper view of things. He is asking relevant questions that have NO universal answers–hence my word freedom. So, if the conversation can go to what is universal, then maybe that would help him out.
One simple question to Mr. Lurker if there are 200 people in your congregation all from different backgrounds, liking different styles and different points in their journey…What style do you go with?
My point is this…style should never be an issue. Why is it a issue? I don’t like country actually I can’t stand country music, but if 40 people like and I don’t, should I not worship God or become detached and discoonected because I don’t perfer the style.
We need to be very careful where we draw the line when it comes to true worship…WORTHSHIP; KISS TOWARDS; ADORING; ASSIGNING WORTH TO. We need to make sure it doesn’t become about us or the focus is on what I want or desire…then the focus of worship is one me or us. If we are going to worship it needs to be towards God. And you are absolutely right we don’t even need music or words…as long as it is directed towards God and it comes from our hearts.
To me many of Christian artist i.e. Switchfoot; Jars of Clay; Derek Webb; Salvador; Disciple; Darlene Zchech (sp?); David Crowder, Matt Redman; Chris Tomlin and many others are average joes. I believe the create and wirte from their heart and personal experiences, we need to be really careful how critical we are of these artists. Yes maybe their styles or lyrics aren’t for you, the dechurch or the unchurched person by it could be for someone. Yes there might be deep lyrics for the educated where they can connect using big theological words or there might be shallow lyrics for those like me who aren’t bright. I believe artists write from their heart and play with their personal best ability.
Let me give you an example, are you a Van Gogh, Monet, DaVinci or some lesser known artist fan. While one person may like or perfer one artists work over the other, it doesn’t devalue the others art. I personally love abstract neutral color art work.
I will finish with this I believe Lifesong is a great song and I love the heart of Mark Hall and Casting Crowns, I believe and know for a fact he writes from his experience and heart, I don’t like the style, but I can worship God with the lyrics of Lifesong. I like the song of Soundtrack to Your Life by Ashley Parker Angel, almost identical lyrics and a style I perfer more and I can worship to that song as well. How many of would say I want the Soundtrack to my Life to say this or that, isn’t like saying I want my Lifesong to say this or that.
Please be careful in being critcial other peoples personal art, we not like the style, but someone else may like it. It is not about us, the world doesn’t revolve around you and I.
My two cents,
Chris Jarrell
Style IS the issue. The goal is to transcend that or be aware that our culture is like Mr. Lurker. He is at style right now…but it is up to us to bring him further than that, if possible. One day, he may learn to love the music, but he may have to learn to give up his style so he can reach his friend.
I am with Mr. Lurker…on a lot of what he is questioning. In the past, the Church used to be the center of art and music. Now, it has a long way to go. One author said, “where are the next Michaelangelos in our churches?” We scare them away!
But whos style do you appeal to? There are so many diverse styles. Rock; R&B; Jazz; Country; Contemporary; Fusion; Industrial; Hard Rock; Heavy Metal; Bluegrass;House;Latin; Soul; Hip Hop; I could go on and on. Whos style do you appeal to? Are we willing to lose some to gain others? If so who are we willing to lose? What culture and style are we willing to not be relevant to? Where is the middle ground? Again, why is style such an issue in the church as far as music, but it is not an issue in the world, it really isn’t, I can connect to anyone with just about any style.
There are only a few absolutely creative artist in the music industry as it is…nothing out there is absolutely great art in the industry as a whole, in my opinion everything in the industry as a whole sounds the same.
Here some of the few still out there that I believe are creating great art in music…both musically and lyrically and fresh
U2
R.E.M.
Dave Matthews Band
David Crowder Band
Coldplay
Derek Webb
Eminem (yes, he is very creative as an artist with the hip hop style, I believe he is cutting edge in the hip hop genre/style)
That is about it.
Phil Keaggy is one of the best guitarists alive.
Too me there are very few out there who can say they are cutting edge creative artists.
Chris J.
I want to add a little to my previous post. In regards to several other artist I feel that are creative and cutting edge, in style and lyrically…
Jars of Clay
Chris Tomlin
Underoath
Demon Hunter
These are “christian” artists, I believe have superb music, lyrics that are relevant and styles that are well modern or should I say emerging or even Top 40 or maybe I should say New Music.
Look I am partly playing devil’s advocate here. I believe in being relevant, I believe in reaching our “culture” which is you must admit is very broad, I believe we should say to reach our local communities and age group and where they are at one their journey.
What need to be careful of is that we become so consumer friendly, that we miss being God friendly when it comes to our personal worship. Worship is both corporate and personal, so we need to ask who is the focus or the target audience of our worship (not style, not music, not lyrics) but worth-ship, who are we kissing towards, who are we falling facedown before, who are we lifting holy hands to, who we doing this for…I submit to you it must be God. Draw near to Him; and He will draw near to you.
One other point for now, people will use style as an excuse and not a valid excuse not to come to God. Our ministry and mission is bring or invite people into a relationship with God not into a certain church or even style.
I will give two examples of styles in churches I honestly don’t like, but I believe God is doing incredible things in their ministries and churches…Joel Osteen church in Houston, TX and TD Jakes church in Dallas, TX. God is doing incredible things…it is not my style, actually I don’t like that type of music but people are coming to the Lord in incredible ways, people from all backgrounds and nations. WHY?
This it for now, as you can see I am very passionate about worship.
Chris J.
Hey Chris. Well I can say you are very passionate about style. Thats for sure. So. With that being said. Have you thought about the fact that TD Jake’s church HAS decided who to leave out. They obviously have left out you. Their style won’t work for you, therefore you don’t go there.
My church definately has a style. When I stop leading, there will be another style that comes in. We can’t hide from it. So embrace it.
Los
Why people cant relate
Reading through a couple of other blogs, Ive noticed a couple of other folk that have highlighted the fact that people struggle to relate to church. SmuloSpace even notes that some people are leaving the church not because they are losing their …
Mr. Nameless Lurker Ministry Guy has chimed in once again. Here are his additional thoughts:
> I’m not questioning the talent and the heart of people like Chris Tomlin, Casting Crowns, Charlie Hall, Hillsong, Passion, etc. However, it seems to me like a lot of people are all writing similar stuff… especially musically it seems to be the similar. In the same way, I don’t question the talent and the heart of the writers of the old hymns.
> I’m fearful that churches today, for the most part, are settling into a mentality that a certain style of music is praise & worship. It makes me think back to when I first attended a contemporary church in the early 90s. I walked out shaking my head and not sure if I would come back. Sadly, I was under the impression that you could only “worship” God in music when singing hymns. I was bored with hymns because I had been singing them…well, since I began singing. Hymns weren’t at all the style of music that I listened to throughout the week, nor was it the style of music that anyone I knew listened to throughout the week.
So, when I became “freed up” and realized that it was OK to praise God and worship in music of all kinds of styles, I loved it! No more church with only hymnals, pianos, organs, and horrible soloists for me! Even better, because the music was of such a high quality and in line with the times, I could easily invite my friends, churched or unchurched, Christ followers or hell raisers, and know that they would enjoy the experience. Because of the lyrics (and the style) I was praising and worshipping and because of the style my friends were attracted.
I feel like churches today may again be burying their heads and have settled into the “new hymnal” with “hymns” from all the popular praise & worship writers and, as a result, nothing outside of this is acceptable or considered. Meanwhile, we’re missing the opportunity to have lyrics and style and creativity that thrill God, that are praiseworthy, and are worshipful. At the same time, we may be missing the unchurched and the younger generations because we aren’t progressing in style.
> My comments have very little to do with my personal preference. I’m concerned about all those that we are missing when we get comfortable, lazy, or close-minded about style.
> I believe that we should be VERY diverse in our styles. I can appreciate music of almost any style when it is played with excellence, passion, and creativity…even when it’s not my preferred style. I believe that even Tony Morgan could appreciate and have fun with a little country music if done with excellence…but, it certainly wouldn’t be his preferred style.
> I believe there are also a lot of bands out there with Christian lyrics who are cutting edge and progressive and worshipful and excellent, but they are being ignored by most of us because we seem to be a little afraid of them. We’re afraid to push the envelope and get outside of the “new hymnal”.
> I’d love to see some comments out there from a worship leader who feels like they are little bit of a black sheep…maybe someone who’s been beat up a little bit for being “too creative” or for pushing the envelope (maybe some of those who have commented already fit this description?)
Dear Mr. Lurker guy,
I am not a worship leader in the stand-on-stage musical sense, but my husband was, and a dear friend of mine is.
At my friend’s previous church, they asked him not to do a song that he had written because it was “too much”…lyrically. Not in an disconnecting sense, but an uncomfortable sense. The people my age (25-35) loved it, but older people found it too much.
My husband tried to be less “3 chords” and more creative musically. He didn’t get a whole lot of negative feedback (he got some) from it, but it wasn’t encouraged or necessarily supported either.
My husband’s not really much of a blogger, but he wrote some thoughts on it a year or so ago. http://www.xanga.com/actioncj
Thanks for the challenging thoughts. There definitely exists a tension when people are faced with something they aren’t used to.
MUSIC DOESN’T WORSHIP GOD, PEOPLE DO.
Why can’t a pop song can be utilized to praise Him if that is one’s intent. Obviously if there are lyrics that contradict His principles and teachings it would be inapropriate. It is the heart behind it that counts!
My take on those who are saying it is too difficult to choose what culture’s music to cater to is…..hopefully if the people living around you are multiclultural than your church should somewhat represent this. Why not mix up your worship to include country, pop, blues, or whatever to reach the lost around you?
To me culturally relevent means communicating in a way that this generation communicates. Not altering or watering down the gospel so they can understand it.
We’ve made worship music into something it was never intended to be. I love classic rock outside of church, but give me the Lutheran Book of Worship inside. Accompanied by a pipe organ.
I think the crucial point here is that worship is to be in spirit and truth. Whatever style, if the worship leader can’t make it his own worship, if he or she can’t put their whole heart into worshipping with it, it doesnt’ matter what style it is. Excellence is great, but in many of our churches excellence and style have become our idols, and God is no longer the focus. We are called to be authentic and trust that God will do what He promises to do. The Holy Spirit will do far more in hearts that we can if we allow him room to work.
Yes, I think that Worship music needs to be fixed…or rather redirected towards excellence…as that’s what God calls us to. And I think that Wired Churches and Tony Morgan could help. It’s not that Christian artists aren’t trying to create great worship songs…it’s just that they are being rewarded towards a wrong or maybe imbalanced end…they are only being rewarded by being marketable and commercially successful. If the only rewards are towards commercial success the art form will become decadent. The opposite end of the pendulum is excellence in art form. Let me explain…in the general market (I didn’t say secular market as I don’t believe that God is absent outside of CCM) the Oscar’s and Grammy’s reward excellence in art form. (The Oscar’s seem to do a better job of this.) They do not recognize bad art even if it was commercially successful. They still recognize good art if it was commercially successful but sometimes it can actually hinder the chances of winning the award.
What if Tony Morgan and Wired Churches came up with an annual award for excellence in worship music? You might say that we already have the Dove Awards, but I feel they reward commercial success before excellence in art. (I’m not condemning the awards I just think those awards will not “fix” worship music). If Wired Churches would come up with a panel of music critiques (even if they are not Christians), the panel could vote on the best worship songs submitted that year regardless of commercial success or even if they person is not signed to a record label. The people who receive the top awards would join the panel for the next year of voting. If the songs were listed on the Wired Churches website, I know our worship leader would be doing those songs in our church. Right now, churches sometimes find ourselves searching for worship songs in lists that only highlight commercial success.
Do I think that all worship music is terrible right now? No, but I do think that worship music could or is becoming decadent based on how recording artists are rewarded. As it’s commonly said, “It’s much easier to redirect a moving boulder than to get the boulder moving down the hill.” Fortunately, the Christian music industry has got the boulder moving finally. I think that rewarding what we want the end result to be, excellence in art, will drive a better product. Tony, it’s up to you.
I’m a number of weeks behind on this conversation, but have some thoughts as a worship leader, longtime believer, and someone who has been involved in stylistic discussions.
I honestly disagree with very little that I’ve read here, and I’ve read it all prior to my post. Things that I strongly agree with…..
Worship is for God alone. Idol worship generally met with poor results in the bible, so as believers, staying away from idol worship would be a good thing.
Worship must be presented authentically, which quite frankly is an issue between the worshipper and God. God knows the heart of the worshipper, and will deal accordingly with that “issue”. It can be pretty icky when we try to judge authenticity. Tread lightly.
Other thoughts….
I believe that the Church needs to be outwardly focused (Seek and save the lost). I’m a member of a church where a little old lady and long time member went through a transition from traditional to contemporary (for lack of a better term). She made the paraphrased comment and said that she didn’t really like the music, and that most of the time it was too loud, but that people were finding Christ and giving their lives over to him, and she wanted to be a part of that. The “style” didn’t work for her, but the redemptive power of Christ seemed to fill that void.
I had a similar comment from a bass player at a past church. He was a huge classical music buff, and didn’t at all like the 3 chord worship stuff (his words). But when he would play, and see the congregation standing as one, worshipping in spirit and in truth it nudged him towards the throne along with them. He loved seeing people engage and be affected by his “offering”. Great attitudes by believers that were focused outwardly.
I also believe that we need to give the Holy Spirit a little more credit in this conversation. I believe that God can use whatever style of music to point us to himself. It doesn’t matter if it’s Crowder, U2, Phil Collins, Nickelback, George Strait, Miles Davis, or Beethoven. Obviously the lyrics must be appropriate.
We must also give those that we are targeting more credit. They are there for a reason, most probably looking for something. Let’s face it, if they have a bad experience parking the car, finding the coat rack, or any number of a dozen issues before they sit in the seat, we could have their favorite musician play their favorite song, and it’s not going to speak to them in the way we all strive. If they are there seeking, they’ll find. Something got them there. If it’s their “time”, then the Holy Spirit will do the work. I don’t condone just showing up and waiting. Our God is a God of order, but he has a plan for us each individually, and also a plan for our “church”. He will lead us if we listen.
We CAN NOT make everyone happy. Too much variety is chaos. Too little variety is routine. As leaders and servants, we need to listen to the Holy Spirit, and sense his direction for each of our churches. When we are unified, He will guide us. We can do all the strategic planning that we want, take surveys, and have town hall meetings in the hopes of keeping our congregations happy, but ultimately, we must be in tune with the Spirit. If we feel led to play the U2 song that week, then rock on, and trust the Holy Spirit.
Each church is going to have a stylistic “bent”. Stay in tune with the Holy Spirit and let him bring the people to your congregation that your body can most effectively speak to.
When we love someone, a spouse for example, and we want to show or tell them how special and wonderful they are, we need to be in tune with them well enough to know what they want. Our worship is for God alone. We need to be intuned with him to know what he wants to hear, and he will bring the people to us that we are supposed to minister to.
If we try to be all things to all people, then we water down the work that God wants us to do.
Yes, worship (spirit and truth) is for God alone. However, the music/lyrics aspect is for human encouragement and teaching.
Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,…(Ephesians 5:11)
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. (Colossians 3:16)
Every opinion above is valid. The problem is that people have become very vocal and demanding about having their idea of relevancy met. I love that story about the lady told by Doug: “She made the paraphrased comment and said that she didn’t really like the music, and that most of the time it was too loud, but that people were finding Christ and giving their lives over to him, and she wanted to be a part of that.” This is the Christian culture that the un-churched could understanding: “By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:35)
I am glad that when I started going to church, worship music was not made “relevant” according to my understand and culture, or I would have come to know a watered-down version of god.
There will always be un-church people in the midst of maturing Christians. If one of the function of Christian music is to encourage and teach, watered-down songs would never be inducive of “growth” and “maturity”.
Unfortunately, believers are the ones demanding “relevance”. Some worshipers have a difficult time worshipping unless they “feel” a certain way.
Can Christian music sound like the Top 40s? I doubt it. Music alone doesn’t make a song “popular”. Popular music is about promotion and packaging. Most songs aren’t selling music per se but the attitude and feeling that the performers convey–bad, sex, etc.
Music plays a majorly significant role in bringing the faith to the ears of the unchurched. You see in our modern age, some people have their own principals and values mapped out in their mind. Most unchurched people aren’t going to go into a christian store. So it is becoming a popular trend for christian artists to penetrate the barrier and further deliver their music to the mainstream music community. Artist such as underoath, switchfoot, jars of clay, relient k and others have done this. I cant be bothered writng anymore. But i will say that Underoath in particular generally relates to normal peoples lives as the band members have gone through the struggle. Whether it be drugs or depression etc. The main theme for the songs are that God can help you out and that you can do many things with his help. Its all worth Reaching for.
Godspeed!
It’s music plain and simple. Music is no more worship than a tree is a rock. I can address God in a personal worship moment by listening to Bach, Beethoven or Brian Culbertson. My worship of God is defined by how I live my life moment by moment. I’m giving God glory when I treat others as I treat myself and love the ugly and dirty around me.
Tony, just a quick thought to a thought you had quite a few comments back. I am coming into this conversation a little late but you made an example about India and if we were doing worship there would we not do it in their language and in ways that relate to them culturally and i completely agree we would. Here is a further thought and just something to wonder about. When I have gone to other cultures and heard them sing songs like Shout To The Lord and Here I Am To Worship it really makes me sad. I don’t want to hear them doing songs that I hear on Sunday’s [We don't do Shout To The Lord as much :)] I want to hear them sing THEIR SONGS, in THEIR LANGUAGE, because there is something so beautiful and different about that. I wonder if the world who walks through our church doors, when they experience the presence of God no matter what the style or energy is because we are worshiping out of a response to the a daily revelation of God, don’t find it beautiful and inviting because it is DIFFERENT then what they experience and maybe the difference is all we have left. That difference being that we have the presence of an almighty God. Does He inhabit the praise of His people and if He does… wow I pray people experience the beauty of that difference. But I think they have to see it in our authenticity of expression and our passion for God.
I haven’t read any of the comments yet, but here are my initial thoughts:
1. We have been having this conversation for over a year at Reform worship. (www.reformworship.com).
2. There is a sentimentality to most praise and worship songs out there today that makes Jesus out to be some sort of wimpy, feminine man from way back when, who we want to touch us.
3. The Gospel is a rated “X” message that will offend non-believers if it is preached rightly. Our songs should be filled with the Gospel and should help worshipers receive and respond to it.
4. The Church should be creating culture instead of following the trends of secular culture.
The list goes on, but I have to go lead some cutting edge, relevant, rated “X” worship right now.
Thanks for this post.
Ryan Flanigan
http://www.reformworship.com
I think that it is great to have a variety of music styles. Traditional churches stay with the traditional music and a lot of the music in contemporary churches (or at least the one I attend) tends to be more Rock based. We do have some traditional hymns but I think it would be great to add a bigger variety, add some black gospel, some old-time spiritual music in addition to what we already do. That way you will appeal to a larger demographic. And do so in each service. The music tends to be either one type or another for an entire service. If you had a variety in each service then it would appeal to more people. Thats just my 2 cents.
Tony–
GREAT conversation…lots of passion going on with it too! Here’s my take. I’m at what many would call a “seeker” church. We program with the seeker/unchurched person in mind. Here are some ways that this affects our programming:
- We intentionally don’t use Christianese. Any church word that won’t make sense/confuse a nonbeliever we don’t use OR we explain it. Example: If someone is using the word “blessed”…we explain what it means and don’t assume they know.
- We have the bible on large screens instead of assuming everyone has it or making someone feel out of place b/c they don’t.
- Our building is designed to help remove barriers for unchurched people.
- Our series are done in creative ways…all of which are done to help the message “make sense” to the unchurched.
- We use language when recieving our offering that helps it make sense.
Now, all of those things I think we would agree are worshipful towards God. Preaching & offering especially. We feel like ALL of our efforts are worship to God. So, why should music be elevated any higher than the preaching? Is it more pure worship than giving? It just seems that some of the arguments here are elevating music above other methods.
I believe in singing songs that help CONNECT seekers & TEACH them. If we’re singing a song that’s a little “churchier” than other…we will explain it and give some direction in singing it. Also, if it’s a song written from a passage in the bible, we’ll read it and help teach the bible. If it’s a song that says “Raise Your Hands”, we’ll explain the significance of that instead of leaving unchurched people scratching their heads & wondering why everyone (except for them) is raising their hands.
Just my thought. Again, great post.
Upbeat? One word baby, Fee. Steve Fee’s got some rockin songs like broadcast and we shine. Oh, and Lee McDerment’s “Our God is Love” and “We Stand” are pretty high energy as well. Check out ragamuffinsoul.com, Carlos Whittaker, buckhead’s worship leader blogs there…