Bill Hybels jumped right into another interview with Jim Collins, author of Built to Last and Good to Great. The first thing Hybels did was recommend every one purchase the new monograph Collins has recently released by a social sector. I reviewed it here on this site last December.

Collins said social sector organizations should not be run like businesses. Most businesses are not great. Why would we want to export mediocrity into the church world? We need a different language for the social sectors.

One of the differences is that it’s difficult to establish metrics in social sectors. In business, money is both an input and an output. In the social sectors, money is only an input. You can’t use business metrics to measure success. Instead, Collins explained, we need to ask these questions: What do we mean by great results? How do we know if we’re improving? Most people in the social sector will say, “We can’t measure?” Collins said those people lack discipline. We still have to determine appropriate metrics to measure success. We need to do that in order to move toward greatness. The question isn’t have we arrived? or are we great? The question should be are we getting better?

Collins also talked about the differences in leadership between businesses and the social sector. In business you have concentrated executive power. In the social sectors like the church, the power map is more diffuse. The executive leader can’t make decisions on their own. They have to architect the environment to get to the right decisions to move forward. Hybels said, we can’t decree anything. We have to bring leaders together to hear the voice of God. It’s a different style of leadership.

Attracting talent is also different. Good to great leaders first try to find the right people, and then they figure out where they are going. First “who” then “what.” Get the right people on the bus in the right seats, and then figure out where you’re going to drive the bus. Collins said in the social sector we need to increase our standards for finding leadership. Because we have limited resources, we can’t afford to hold on to ineffective leaders. The best way to ensure you have the right people is to grow them from within.

Collins also pointed out that there’s no correlation between executive compensation and company performance. Great people will do great things because they want to do great things. Hybels asks the questions how strongly do you feel about the mission? Hybels is looking for people who are willing to pitch a tent on the front lawn of Willow Creek until he let’s them do it.

There’s a difference between leadership and exercising power. Those have learned to get things done in the social sector are true leaders.

Collins said one of the things that damages social sector organizations is restricted or designated giving. To get great results, you have to build great organizations not great programs. Designated giving doesn’t build great ministry organizations.

Drucker challenged Collins with this statement: “Life is not about what you achieve–it’s about what you contribute.” Hybels agreed. No one has found true fulfillment through self-gratification.

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