Comments on: Are Christ-Followers Too Dependent on the Church? http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/ Trying to be strategic. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:28:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bill B http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/#comment-2359 Bill B Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:52:02 +0000 http://tonymorgan.updatable.cc/?p=922#comment-2359 Interesting post. I understand the premise of the post. That there comes a time when Christians need to be the 'edifiers' instead of the 'edifiees'. Yet, I believe what Jane Muir posted is accurate, as well. The Church(body of Jesus-followers) are instructed to edify one another. While there comes a time where we must all step-up to the plate with our faith, we ALWAYS need to commune together with other elect. Christianity is relational. Interesting post. I understand the premise of the post. That there comes a time when Christians need to be the ‘edifiers’ instead of the ‘edifiees’.
Yet, I believe what Jane Muir posted is accurate, as well. The Church(body of Jesus-followers) are instructed to edify one another. While there comes a time where we must all step-up to the plate with our faith, we ALWAYS need to commune together with other elect. Christianity is relational.

]]> By: Ken Witcher http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/#comment-2358 Ken Witcher Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:09:11 +0000 http://tonymorgan.updatable.cc/?p=922#comment-2358 I heard Erwin McManus speak yesterday and he hit on some similar issues. He said that "Christians are Bulimic" and "our job is not to feed the sheep but to make them hungry so they can feed themselves." You can check out my notes from his sessions at www.kenwitcher.com. I heard Erwin McManus speak yesterday and he hit on some similar issues. He said that “Christians are Bulimic” and “our job is not to feed the sheep but to make them hungry so they can feed themselves.” You can check out my notes from his sessions at http://www.kenwitcher.com.

]]> By: mike p http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/#comment-2357 mike p Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:30:47 +0000 http://tonymorgan.updatable.cc/?p=922#comment-2357 Great comments! Our people have done 3 different studies based on the book of Revelation in the last 5 years (not to mention a walk through Daniel). Just the other day I was wondering, "why all this interest in end times and not as much interest in the now?" I think it's because concentrating on eschatology is more fun than dealing with the issues i'm dealing with now, like how to win my lost family members and co-workers to Christ or how to influence "my world" with the "flavor" of Jesus. Concentrating on now means concentrating on ME and I don't always like what I see and am not comfortable with the change that comes with it. Often, these studies can become an equivalent of Christian entertainment. At what point are they supposed to quit being the equipee(?) and become the equipper? Great comments! Our people have done 3 different studies based on the book of Revelation in the last 5 years (not to mention a walk through Daniel). Just the other day I was wondering, “why all this interest in end times and not as much interest in the now?” I think it’s because concentrating on eschatology is more fun than dealing with the issues i’m dealing with now, like how to win my lost family members and co-workers to Christ or how to influence “my world” with the “flavor” of Jesus. Concentrating on now means concentrating on ME and I don’t always like what I see and am not comfortable with the change that comes with it. Often, these studies can become an equivalent of Christian entertainment. At what point are they supposed to quit being the equipee(?) and become the equipper?

]]> By: Nathan http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/#comment-2356 Nathan Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:51:39 +0000 http://tonymorgan.updatable.cc/?p=922#comment-2356 Great discussion! Just for my two cents: It seems like there has to be a weaning point, a time when the motive for a person attending church moves from being fed to doing the feeding. Too many people in our churches are like middle-aged adults with pacifiers in their mouths. I think Ed Young's message about the table (check it out if you haven't seen it) handles this subject pretty well. Great discussion! Just for my two cents: It seems like there has to be a weaning point, a time when the motive for a person attending church moves from being fed to doing the feeding. Too many people in our churches are like middle-aged adults with pacifiers in their mouths. I think Ed Young’s message about the table (check it out if you haven’t seen it) handles this subject pretty well.

]]> By: Jason http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/#comment-2355 Jason Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:09:15 +0000 http://tonymorgan.updatable.cc/?p=922#comment-2355 I'm reading these posts through the lens of Hebrews 5:11-6:3. Check it out. These posts aren't saying Christians should not be connected to a church. They are saying, from my point of view, too many christians are crying for more milk to be fed to them. See v. 12, Though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the ...truths...all over again. Please don't take offense to this if i am reading these posts with the wrong attitude. I’m reading these posts through the lens of Hebrews 5:11-6:3. Check it out. These posts aren’t saying Christians should not be connected to a church. They are saying, from my point of view, too many christians are crying for more milk to be fed to them. See v. 12, Though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the …truths…all over again.

Please don’t take offense to this if i am reading these posts with the wrong attitude.

]]> By: Derek http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/#comment-2354 Derek Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:24:53 +0000 http://tonymorgan.updatable.cc/?p=922#comment-2354 Um, I'd love to see some kind of Bible reference that indicates that Christians are supposed to be "independent" and "feed themselves." Because I'm pretty sure there aren't any. We're supposed to be interdependent. Jesus used phrases like "feed my sheep" and "love one another." The last shall be first. He taught them that service to each other was the most important thing. We're not talking about reaching the lost here, we're talking about within the community of believers. Yes, that does mean that people need to step up and help out. But the biggest thing is that they need to participate in real relationships with each other, something more than just small groups or even a weekly house church meeting. When we use words like "independent" we make it sound like we're on our own. We were never meant to grow spiritually while isolated from everyone else. We were meant to edify each other, confess our sins to each other, pray for each other, love each other, teach each other, and depend on each other. Perhaps the biggest reason I left the conventional church setting is because it's nearly impossible to accomplish those key elements of church in a non-participatory setting. If we can get that figured out, whether in a conventional or house church setting, then "helping the church introduce more people to Christ" will happen as a result of the love they see in us. Um, I’d love to see some kind of Bible reference that indicates that Christians are supposed to be “independent” and “feed themselves.” Because I’m pretty sure there aren’t any.

We’re supposed to be interdependent. Jesus used phrases like “feed my sheep” and “love one another.” The last shall be first. He taught them that service to each other was the most important thing. We’re not talking about reaching the lost here, we’re talking about within the community of believers.

Yes, that does mean that people need to step up and help out. But the biggest thing is that they need to participate in real relationships with each other, something more than just small groups or even a weekly house church meeting.

When we use words like “independent” we make it sound like we’re on our own. We were never meant to grow spiritually while isolated from everyone else. We were meant to edify each other, confess our sins to each other, pray for each other, love each other, teach each other, and depend on each other. Perhaps the biggest reason I left the conventional church setting is because it’s nearly impossible to accomplish those key elements of church in a non-participatory setting.

If we can get that figured out, whether in a conventional or house church setting, then “helping the church introduce more people to Christ” will happen as a result of the love they see in us.

]]> By: jane muir http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/#comment-2353 jane muir Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:17:07 +0000 http://tonymorgan.updatable.cc/?p=922#comment-2353 Tony, It really drives me crazy how people use the excuse of being an introvert as a scape goat for not getting involved! There are MANY areas that they can get involved and not even have to see anyone, or talk to anyone... lots of computer/web areas, sweeping floors, sewing costumes for children's church, making copies for Bible studies... It just comes down to lazy personalities. (I am guilty of this too!) It is easier to moan and complain than to do something about it! We as spoiled Americans just want it to be delivered to our recliners, and not have to do anything. Well guess what... God did not mention a LazyBoy in any of his ministry! He got out there and did something, everyday except when he was in the hills spending time with the father!...Learning on his own, without a Bible study! Guess I'm on Ryan's locomotive too! Tony, It really drives me crazy how people use the excuse of being an introvert as a scape goat for not getting involved! There are MANY areas that they can get involved and not even have to see anyone, or talk to anyone… lots of computer/web areas, sweeping floors, sewing costumes for children’s church, making copies for Bible studies…

It just comes down to lazy personalities. (I am guilty of this too!) It is easier to moan and complain than to do something about it!

We as spoiled Americans just want it to be delivered to our recliners, and not have to do anything. Well guess what… God did not mention a LazyBoy in any of his ministry! He got out there and did something, everyday except when he was in the hills spending time with the father!…Learning on his own, without a Bible study!

Guess I’m on Ryan’s locomotive too!

]]> By: Ryan Sutherland http://tonymorganlive.com/2007/02/14/are-christ-followers-too-dependent-on-the-church/#comment-2352 Ryan Sutherland Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:03:00 +0000 http://tonymorgan.updatable.cc/?p=922#comment-2352 Hey Tony, This post brings up something I feel very stongly about. I grew up in a church where a lot of things were done,but not done WELL (see perry's post) and part of that had to do with people not stepping up and taking control of what God called them to do. They were too content with just showing up and "being fed" and only helping when they were asked to. Also, at a number of churches I have been to, people weren't constantly encouraged to get involved in Bible studies or to even read their Bibles! (These were mostly Caholic churches by the way) I think NewSpring does a good job of getting people out of their comfort zones. I think you are right when the challenge is to balance "teaching and equipping" without making people solely dependent on church for the Word. I recently heard a sermon by Erwin McManus where he talked about people shouldn't have to depend on the church to be fed , that at certain point "you're a big boy now" and you can feed yourself. I think that we sometimes need to remind ourselves that it isn't the church that necessarily feeds us, but it is ultimately Jesus who feeds us, and he will help us to feed ourselves. After all, a good shepherd leads his sheep to the field right? Well, sorry I rambled on that one. When I get going...it's like a locomotive sometimes. Thanks for the post and have a great day! Hey Tony,
This post brings up something I feel very stongly about. I grew up in a church where a lot of things were done,but not done WELL (see perry’s post) and part of that had to do with people not stepping up and taking control of what God called them to do. They were too content with just showing up and “being fed” and only helping when they were asked to. Also, at a number of churches I have been to, people weren’t constantly encouraged to get involved in Bible studies or to even read their Bibles! (These were mostly Caholic churches by the way)
I think NewSpring does a good job of getting people out of their comfort zones. I think you are right when the challenge is to balance “teaching and equipping” without making people solely dependent on church for the Word.
I recently heard a sermon by Erwin McManus where he talked about people shouldn’t have to depend on the church to be fed , that at certain point “you’re a big boy now” and you can feed yourself. I think that we sometimes need to remind ourselves that it isn’t the church that necessarily feeds us, but it is ultimately Jesus who feeds us, and he will help us to feed ourselves. After all, a good shepherd leads his sheep to the field right?

Well, sorry I rambled on that one. When I get going…it’s like a locomotive sometimes. Thanks for the post and have a great day!

]]>