How would Apple do church?
I had a fun brainstorming session yesterday with Jenn, Skye, Howard, Nathan, Chris, Sarah and Michael. Now you can play along. I’d love to hear your ideas. Remember…this is brainstorming. There are no wrong answers.
Let’s pretend a company like Apple was committed to reaching people for Jesus. They, of course, are trying to reach the same people we’re trying to reach. Only instead of iPods and Macs and iPhones, we’re trying to present the Gospel. It’s a stretch. I know. But we’re trying to discover new ministry strategies to reach people in today’s culture.
So here’s the question: If Apple was a church, how would Apple do church?"
Then, when you’re done with that. Try substituting some other companies that are taking new ground in today’s culture like Google or Starbucks or Target or Facebook.
How would you answer the question?
First I think great companies ask great questions. They know who they are trying to reach and are very intentional in doing so. Many churches seem 100% okay with assuming they know the answers but rarely are they engaging those they seek to reach by asking proper questions. I’d start there.
I’d also take note at what is the true underlying success of these companies. Is it the product in and of itself or the experience with the product that is the winning formula? I think we can easily mistake inviting others to church much like inviting them to try a product. The product without the experience leaves something out. Apple is about experiences. Yes the product is superior in many ways but it’s the experience in using the product that they have built an entire culture around. Starbucks is the same. More about the experience than the coffee.
If we want people to come to know Jesus then we have to invite them into the experience of knowing Him and the experience of what a transformed life can bring.
What’s the answer? Not sure. I’m still working on the right questions to ask.
I think many of the companies you listed do fantastic jobs at creating a certain type of culture. I think that is one lesson we can learn from these companies.
When I think about apple and steve jobs, I think about Steve’s product launch demonstrations. They are straight forward. They focus on the products (and the superior level of quality). They always point to the ways apple is progressing and the phenomenon that is has become. It doesn’t ever seem like he is trying to sell you something, but is merely showing you how amazing product is and how excited he is about it. His confidence in the product comes through. Can you imagine a Steve Job’s style gospel presentation?
Another piece of Apple’s culture is the idea that “less is more.” iPods aren’t flashy. It is their simple elegance that draws us to them. How might an apple designer do a church website, sanctuary design, etc?
Interesting thoughts. I think that if we look at successful companies we can get a pulse on the present culture in many ways. There is a reason that Starbucks and apple have become more than companies; they have become cultural phenomenons. It is because they have a pulse on the present culture.
Lots of things come to mind. I think the one that sticks out the most is simply this: They would make it easy! Isn’t that something that really makes them who they are? Streamlined, with style; Right? I’m gonna ponder this one some more. great question!
Great question which I will have to think about and come back to post on it. I just wanted to say thanks for a great discussion starter that i am taking to my team.
Will there be a time that you will also post what you and your team thought of as well?
Sorry, Tony – have to be humorous this AM … (or at least try).
DISCLAIMER: I’m an Apple Addict.
Ok ..
Steve Jobs (Apple) would build a state-of-the-art, interactive worship center that meets all the demands of teaching, preaching, worshiping, and fellowship … it would surpass everyone’s expectations, and after a couple of months there, he’d say “this is obsolete, we have a new, smaller, but better facility right here”.
;-)
I agree with daniel d’s comment that what Apple does so well is selling an experience. I think NewSpring and other creative churches like NewSpring do a good job with their product too – the empty tomb – Jesus. But I think Apple would focus more on making the experience tangible through advertising.
Pay attention to the iPhone commercial. Are they selling the fact that it can do tricks no other phone before it can do? Are they selling the fact that it is sleek and cool looking? No – they’re selling the EXPERIENCE OF HAVING THE BEST technology at your fingertips to get things done in ways that have never been better before iPhone.
How might Apple keep the message of Jesus as fresh as a new iPhone in our changing world? Maybe they’d show us how much better it is to have Jesus than to not have him – in current culture. Maybe they’d show us how easy it would be to have a relationship with Jesus (have you ever noticed how churches focus on the difficulties that come from ‘the enemy’ rather than the victory we have in Jesus?). Maybe Apple would focus more on what it is like to experience Jesus in our DAILY life rather than only focusing on how cool it is to come to the corporate office (church) on Sunday. Though I’m sure having a cool corporate office would be important to Apple just as it is important to churches like ours. I think the key word I’ve used throughout this paragraph is SHOW. They couldn’t just talk about an iPhone to sell it for $600. It has to be shown. I think the same is true of Jesus. The world has to be SHOWN what they have to gain through a relationship with Jesus.
I can’t wait to read what everyone says about this. It is definitely an interesting idea to think about. I think the success of major companies like Apple has a whole lot to do with how they advertise (commercials, product placement, and the message both communicates to potential buyers). If church could use the same methods of reaching lost souls the results would be amazing.
Apple would constantly improve on their environments and systems, never settling and/or thinking they’ve arrived. People get angry that Apple updates their products every 3 days, but that is why everything they make is so sweet, they never stop tweaking.They would also develop those environments and systems collaboratively, with the end user in mind.
Starbucks would be very generous to their staff and volunteers, which would exude a vibe that they all really want to be there. They would also create a very welcoming environment designed to get people to not only show up but stay for a while. Everything they do would be very high quality (this is pre-automatic espresso machines Starbucks) and with all that combined anyone that came could not help but tell everyone they knew about Starbucks church.
I think an Apple Church would change a lot. Notice the evolution of the iPod. Started out big – got small – added video – Now the nano has video and the iPhone became an iPod. Apple would re-invent the church experience and environment frequently – constantly evolving and expanding the the experience for the church goer. Also apple understands there need to be different experiences for different people. One size doesnt fit all. Some people want nano-church. Some want Apple TV Church. Some want iMac church. The point is I think apple would not only do multi-site – they would do multi-experience. One service might have a rock flavor, another have a country flavor. Another would be video preacher, another live speakers. Some might be light services – short message – very little music. Some might be more intense. I think newspring is on the right track trying to have a different experience on Sunday Night to attract a different crowd. Currently we meet in a theater. what if each auditorium offered a different musical experience?
“I’m still working on the right questions to ask.” – Daniel D
I am so with you on that.
Apple and Starbucks are HOT because of their awesome design/experience/coolness.
The churches I go to, the company I work for, we’re trying to do this approach. But I’m not sure if this approach will be effective in promoting Jesus.
I feel like, much, much more than the above, the world is starving for LOVE, community, authenticity and meaning. Which we can convey using Starbucksian methods, but the world doesn’t buy spiritual truth in the same way they do products, so it’s not a fair comparison.
Therefore, for the sake of strategy and winning people, I think we need to: 1) create a culture of authentic community 2) LOVE people a lot 3) be humble and communicate total humility and brokenness and acceptance.
maybe…
I’ve been thinking about the whole supply and demand thing lately. If I sell guitars (or computers or whatever), I typically have a low end guitar beginners can afford, the average models, that the serious players have and a high end product that professionals and/or the wealthy have. This is true of almost any store, restaurant, car dealership, or plastic surgery center. People with more money, get more product.
Churches on the other hand play by a totally different set of rules. We have one service for everyone. If you visit our church on any given Sunday we’re putting our best up on the stage. This causes a slew of issues across churches. How do I attract the high-end consumer, with a low end budget? How do I make Sunday morning feel like the apple store when I’m using antiquated equipment?
So, the end result is, our churches tend to cater to a certain niche. Sure the poor guy is welcome in our church, until he realizes everyone else is wearing Armani suits. And we’d love the business owner in our country chapel, but what does he have in common with everyone else? He probably feels guilty driving up in a 90,000 dollar car. So from the time you start having services until you reach the 800 – 1000 mark you’ll probably attract one type of person. It’s like a cast system.
If Apple were running a church, it would reach those living the top tax bracket. It would look glossy and yes it would be simple. Steve made a comment in his iPhone keynote about how tough it was to create apps that’s looked so clean (my paraphrase). I think the same should be true of our churches. Keep the chords hidden, make it look professional and as shiny as possible. That’s what apple would do. Jesus however, would wear sandals and put spit in people’s eyes.
Apple has a decent product, simple to use, hefty price tag and hype’d experience.
If Apple did church, it would be about experience without requiring much knowledge, probably a simple formula interface, and you pay to get in. Sure people jump on pleasurable experiences ‘for a season’, but then the credit card bill comes in and hurts. Though, like Lot’s wife, they are unwilling to let go of it no matter how much it hurts. The hype is just hype, oh and here’s a slightly different version you simply must have. Cha-Ching!
Yes, Apple is innovative and can reach the masses, but they will make you pay for it. The iPod for instance, most other mp3 players have more features, with a slightly more difficult interfaces (thank you, patent office), and are lower priced, yet people still jump for the hype.
In the early days of the MAC it developed a cult following. Now that cult priests are mainstream and the church is looking in wanting some of the action. That is good in one sense, but is scary in another. Do you smell compromise?
The church needs to love the unlovely. Like the good Samaritan, get down in the ditch and pick up the stinking carcass of a bruised and broke(n) sinner whose had too much experience of the world. Don’t be afraid to get dirty and spend time and money fixing other peoples hurts. (And, I don’t mean buy a cry baby and iPod. (some starve while others get drunk))
Companies like Apple and Starbucks disgust me because they are all about fluff and charging big bucks for questionably better products. Then they turn around and support the amoral world the church claims to stand against. But, most, even in the church, don’t think about what is really going on around them, or change their fat life styles if they do see any issues. They have been lulled into the bliss if being ignorant cattle, while their wallets are sucked out by overpriced products. Sorry, I can’t afford to support that orphan, I need another coffee and my iTunes bill is over my credit limit.
Something very wierd happend. My comment got posted with Fred McKinnon’s name and somebody elses got posted with my name… Anyway, your question has really had me thinking all day long – even while I was at a product demonstration at one of HP’s subsidiaries in Atlanta. The HP guys were really selling us on the vision of where HP is headed and thus it is a good time to be doing the business the company I work for is getting ready to do with them. I think NewSpring does an excellent job constantly reminding people the vision of the church and where God is taking us – just like good companies do. That’s just good leadership in anything.
I also like what Joel said about multi flavor – so true.
If you want to get inspired about how innovative and creative numerous corporations and other entities have been in marketing or staying competitive in a world market, a fascinating and engaging book is
The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century by Thomas L. Friedman
(HP is one of the companies profiled)
Such reading certainly gets one thinking outside the box, which NS does quite well, thats why NS is a study in itself.
What Joel said was right on target
“Apple would re-invent the church experience and environment frequently – constantly evolving and expanding the the experience for the church goer. Also apple understands there need to be different experiences for different people”. (Thats the crux of Friedmans book). Corporations that are not willing to adapt and change quickly will not make it in this market. Churches that are unwilling to tune into the thinking of this generation will not be able to reach it. Unfortunately we as humans tend to make the traditions holy and in the process our tradition whether they be church traditions or IBM traditions, they become more important than the people we want to serve. Jesus dealt with this, it isn’t new.
Patricia Walker
(Newspringer)
Hooked on websites 101 worked for me. I didn’t notice that the name of the poster is below the line of the post above it… duh..
Apple wouldn’t have confused me like that :)
I wonder what kind of good ideas I’ll get from the events of the weekend I have planned with my wife for our anniversary??
Everyone keeps talking about how Apple is an “experience”, but let’s keep in mind that it’s simply a product. You are correct in that Steve Jobs does not try to sell you a product, but you can guarantee that his marketing team sure tries.
The difference is this: Apple also tries to sell an entire LIFESTYLE! That’s why people camped outside of Apple stores for an overpriced phone when they could just go get one at the AT&T store. People HAD to buy it from Apple because they have a false sense of acceptance by owning something “apple”.
I think church should be the same way. Not the false-sense-of-security way, but in the fact that Christianity should be a lifestyle, not a product or event. Church should be about life-changing and relevant experiences. I don’t know that Apple is particularly “relevant” but they’ve definitely made an impact. But my biggest thing is that it’s a lifestyle, one that makes people feel accepted and engaged. I think church missed that mark.
Given the IPod and ITunes exclusive relationship, if Apple did church they would have nice, attractive, easy-to-use Bibles …that only worked at their church. And you wouldn’t be able to bring your Bible to the Apple church. You also wouldn’t be able to contribute to the programs/structure/decisions at the Apple church because they would be afraid that a third party would step outside their carefully crafted experience.
Sorry, for being a little snarky, but if there are positive things we can learn from great companies there are also negative things.
quoted this article Here:
http://simplemindedpreacher.wordpress.com/2007/10/01/apple-walmart-or-amway/
This same idea seems to be what spawned the idea for the book “Simple Church.” At least that’;s what the introduction to it says.
How would Apple do church?
Tony Morgan posed this question as part of a brainstorming session . . .Let’s pretend a company like Apple was committed to reaching people for Jesus. They, of course, are trying to reach the same people we’re trying to reach. Only instead of iPods and…