We can? How do you know? Are you a prophet? Has God told you this already?

Also, lazy, pew-warming Christians are what damages the “priesthood of all believers,” not any clergy/laity divide. People are just plain lazy and let clergy/pastors do all of the work. We’d be more than happy to have them take the initiative and do some work for a change.

One of the awesome things about the Word of God being accessible to everyone, as opposed to the thousands of years when the Catholic church restricted it to clergy alone (by not allowing it to be translated into common languages), is that anyone can read what is described in the NT and compare it to the church as it stands in their time. This is what Luther and others did during the reformation, noticing a huge gap between the church’s theology and what is described in the NT. This is what others are doing today, looking more at structure and practice (which was not significantly altered during the reformation!). I would encourage anyone to read specifically what the NT says about church meetings and practice and compare. Ask the question why we’re not more like that. You’ll find that few people want to engage in that discussion.

The biggest differences to me are that we have maintained a huge emphasis on clergy vs. laity, and we continue to restrict participation in church gatherings to the “professionals.” Paul clearly describes a different approach, where the purpose of the church gathering is mutual edification, where believers are led by the Spirit to participate.

There’s more to it than just that, of course, but I think that’s one of the more visible differences, and probably one of the central issues. I’ve been writing a lot about this stuff, on my blog, that you can scrutinize. (And I actually encourage it - I could use the scrutiny!)

Bernard said: “If there’s a problem, God is totally capable of reigning them in.”

Like I said earlier, there’s a difference between people criticizing churches because it differs from their experience (e.g “God hates rock music!”) and comparing modern church to the scripture (e.g. by pointing out that the clergy/laity division undermines the priesthood of all believers). The former are just complaining. God corrected Israel through the prophets, who were rarely listened to. Today, we’ve banished prophets and apostles, by claiming they no longer exist (though there is no scriptural support for this).

I guess I’m saying that if God is going to reign the modern church in, He’s going to do it through prophets and apostles, and you can be sure that they will not fit the mold of what the modern-day church expects them to look like. And you can be sure that most people will not be willing to listen.

That’s awfully broad. Where’s the line? This is the phrase that the most notorious criminals in the history of civilization have used. What’s the standard?”

You’re going to draw a “line” inside of the command of God? I don’t believe that God writes on a wall somewhere and tells Perry and Tony what to do in minute detail, so, yes, they may make mistakes and “miss” the perfect direction of God in some details. I don’t know. BUT, if God is giving direction and controlling the vision and they are subject to God, I think the real mistakes (as judged by God, not as judged by me and you) will be few and far between, and when they happen, I believe these guys are man enough and Godly enough to step up to the plate and say “We screwed up.”

If this is not of God, trust me, He has what it takes to put a stop to it. If it is, I am a fool to try to tear it down. Does that make these guys perfect? No. Does their imperfection justify my attempts to tear them down? No.

Murderers? I think you’re popping up an extremist response. We’re not talking about clear violation of God’s laws; we’re talking about ministry methods. I also think that if we’re REALLY concerned about these guys, the greatest thing we can do is pray for them and pray for their circle of influence. If there’s a problem, God is totally capable of reigning them in. While I may not agree with every breath they take, I’m not going to waste the blogosphere trying to destroy them. I’m going to try to be the best man I can for Christ and hope that I can have the opportunity to present the gospel to, oh, maybe just TEN PERCENT of the people that Perry Noble has…

How many megachurch pastors have I prayed for today? Have I even prayed for MY pastor today?????

It was a real eye opener for me and I embrace it, yet growing up in that type of environment has given me quite a few friends who wonder a little about my salvation because of the types of churches I have attended since leaving that church.

But it feels good to be free and to discover that God is not limited by one model - He’s so much bigger than that!

Thanks for the post.

Derek -

I was just curious about two things. One, what or how would you describe the churches of the NT (in your words)? Two, how are they similar/different from “our” churches? I would love to hear you explain these a little more. Thanks man!