Comments on: It’s not just a Willow-thing

By: Leadership Network Learnings

Leadership Network Learnings — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:25:16 +0000

Reveal Squeal gets louder on the web

The REVEAL study sought to find the answers revolving around this question: “Can we really know if our church is making a difference in the ongoing spiritual growth of our people?” The study’s findings are published in a new book,

By: Mike Adkins

Mike Adkins — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:36:24 +0000

Hi Tony,

This is a great post. I totally agree that people have taken “REVEAL” out of context. Here’s the issue for me, Willow has done a lot of good for God’s church. It’s not perfect, neither does it claim to be so, but in a moment of humility and self-examination, trying to take their next step they get brutalized by closed minded Christians who are more concerned about bashing others than creating the future. How sad. We should pity these people and get back to building the kingdom.

See you in March at “Unleash.”

By: Steve Ashworth

Steve Ashworth — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:05:38 +0000

I have always wondered why it has to be “either/or.” Seeker churches seem to have a hard time growing people in Christ, and churches with an emphasis on spiritual maturity don’t usually reach many people. We’re called to do both. It’s the same issue Tony wrote about in “Simply Strategic Growth.” He talks about the difference between “outside-in” churches and “inside-out” churches. The inside-out churches focus on building up the believers they already have, and once they are discipled, that’s when they are ready to share their faith. The outside-in churches focus instead on attracting the biggest crowd they can, introducing them to Jesus, and then helping them take steps toward spiritual maturity. Why can’t the church do both? We’re called to bring them in, build them up, and send them out. The model I grew up with was more like build them up, build them up, and build them up. Jesus died for more than the handful of people rattling around the average American church building on any given Sunday. I’m grateful for churches like Willow, Saddleback, Granger, and New Spring for leading the way in reaching those people for Jesus.

By: Steve

Steve — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:29:42 +0000

Thanks for posting this. The distortion of the truth even reached us down here in Australia.

It shows that ‘word of mouth’ can snowball out of control… it works against you as well as for you.

Especially if it takes an organisation months to correct the rumours.

By: Kelly Gubser

Kelly Gubser — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:59:55 +0000

It is too bad people are looking for things to use against another ministry. There is a much greater purpose to put our energy into!

We just just finished going through the REVEAL survey with our church today. We are told to expect the analysis by early Spring. While there have been some technical difficulties for some of our participants, the web-based survey seems very well put together. We also seem to have had a 20-30% response rate from our attendees, which should yield some very solid data.

We anticipate similar results for us as described in the book and very much look forward to information specific to us so that we can make our own course corrections. It is absolutely vital.

Tony: great blog! I discovered it just a few weeks ago and appreciate what you have to say!

By: Patricia Walker

Patricia Walker — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:38:49 +0000

I was struck by the last two statements, “The power of REVEAL’s insights for our seeker strategy is the evangelistic strength uncovered in the more mature segments. If we can serve them better, the evangelistic potential is enormous, based on REVEAL’s findings.” That is a powerful statement. As I read it I thopught of Perry’s enormous vision of evangelism and I was struck as to how the body itself is the key. As I think about Newspring I see the dynamic volunteer program as the funnel to draw people into something beyond being a spectator. Once members are serving they are invested and are a part of an organism (something alive and growing). Indeed this group at Newspring is already proving to be a force for evangelism, but as I read the above statement I was struck with the evangelistic strength that will be multiplied as those drawn into service are funneled upward to a deeper spiritual walk and greater level of service (personal vision). Certainly it is a challenge as how to ’serve them better’. Does REVEAL offer insights into how to accomplish this?

By: Kerry Mackey

Kerry Mackey — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:21:49 +0000

Tony, great post. I agree with you brother, “The reality is that Willow’s surveys are finding new insights on spiritual growth issues for all kinds of churches including plenty of churches (40%) that do not consider themselves “seeker-focused” or “seeker-friendly.”

Over my past couple of years at Saddleback Church as the Membership Pastor and now as the founder of Street to the Seat Ministries I too have found myself addressing new insights into spiritual growth and the local church.

See you in cyberspace.

Pastor Kerr

By: Camey

Camey — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:22:02 +0000

Thanks for reprinting that Tony. Definitely agree with: “This is a Church problem. We need to solve this together.”

I am finding the book REVEAL quite interesting and helpful. I greatly appreciate their efforts and willingness in sharing the information.

By: Stephen Wulf

Stephen Wulf — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:11:33 +0000

Tony,

Good post and thanks for trying to clear this up for everyone. I was exposed to the reveal project through a video that showed Bill Hybells talking about said “mistake.” I must be honest, I didn’t get out of his talk that he was admitting a mistake in their seeker model, in fact he said that they did very well in bringing people into the faith, but their breakdown was after that.

It just goes to show that so many people are looking for any area where they can jump in and throw stones at a ministry that has been incredibly effective for many years. I was absolutely taken back and incredibly impressed by the humility Willow Creek showed and their continual commitment to make it better.

It’s ministries like Willow, and their ability to reinvent themselves that keeps them on the cutting edge of the Kingdom of God.

By: Gary

Gary — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:51:42 +0000

Thank you for posting this Tony. I have heard guys taking this out of context over and over. At the Georgia Baptist Convention this year a bozo….I mean a pastor got up and used all those quotes as examples that the modern church isn’t effective. He said even Willow was admitting it. Made me want to scream.