Comments on: The New Traditional Church http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/ Trying to be strategic. Sun, 14 Mar 2010 23:43:51 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Andy LaValley http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-57321 Andy LaValley Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:26:07 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-57321 I don’t think many church leaders would argue with this reasoning. The biggest challenge for today’s contemporary church is actually how to get from complexity to simplicity. I think that the leadership of the church are too afraid to make the changes necessary in fear of failure their lack of understanding of really how to actually move from complexity to simplicity. I don’t think many church leaders would argue with this reasoning. The biggest challenge for today’s contemporary church is actually how to get from complexity to simplicity.
I think that the leadership of the church are too afraid to make the changes necessary in fear of failure their lack of understanding of really how to actually move from complexity to simplicity.

]]> By: craig http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-50775 craig Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:25:19 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-50775 how about this? Read your Bible. Serve others. Make disciples. Do it all WITH a small number of people who encourage and challenge each other all along the way. seriously, isn't there enough great bible teaching out there on through the interwebness? how about this?

Read your Bible.
Serve others.
Make disciples.

Do it all WITH a small number of people who encourage and challenge each other all along the way. seriously, isn’t there enough great bible teaching out there on through the interwebness?

]]> By: Chad Miller http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-48531 Chad Miller Sun, 03 Jan 2010 16:06:04 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-48531 So with this new paradigm shift there will be less of a need for staff at a church, with more finances available to reach the community. You should read Live Sent, by Jason Dukes. I think he helped me make sense of a lot of this conversation. Thanks for posting this Tony! Chad Apex, NC So with this new paradigm shift there will be less of a need for staff at a church, with more finances available to reach the community. You should read Live Sent, by Jason Dukes. I think he helped me make sense of a lot of this conversation. Thanks for posting this Tony!

Chad
Apex, NC

]]> By: Simply Missional - Great Thoughts http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-48527 Simply Missional - Great Thoughts Sun, 03 Jan 2010 15:48:58 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-48527 [...] Morgan shares his thoughts on the new “traditional church.” I think EVERY pastor should take Tony’s words to heart. We HAVE to be willing to do something [...] [...] Morgan shares his thoughts on the new “traditional church.” I think EVERY pastor should take Tony’s words to heart. We HAVE to be willing to do something [...]

]]> By: The “New” Traditional Church « Troy Hamby http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-48336 The “New” Traditional Church « Troy Hamby Sat, 02 Jan 2010 05:53:19 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-48336 [...] The “New” Traditional Church Jump to Comments I just read this post by Tony Morgan on how the “contemporary” church has become the new traditional church but our much heralded methods/models aren’t really producing the results that we hoped.  His thoughts for what is necessary for “church” line up exactly where I think God is leading us.  Check it out here. [...] [...] The “New” Traditional Church Jump to Comments I just read this post by Tony Morgan on how the “contemporary” church has become the new traditional church but our much heralded methods/models aren’t really producing the results that we hoped.  His thoughts for what is necessary for “church” line up exactly where I think God is leading us.  Check it out here. [...]

]]> By: Bible App 2.2 Enhanced Reading Plan « b e c o f f e e . t v http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-48235 Bible App 2.2 Enhanced Reading Plan « b e c o f f e e . t v Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:40:05 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-48235 [...] where he’s been and where he’s going, poke around his blog, but start with this post: The New Traditional Church. Go. Go now. I’ll wait. Really, I’ll still be here when you get back, now [...] [...] where he’s been and where he’s going, poke around his blog, but start with this post: The New Traditional Church. Go. Go now. I’ll wait. Really, I’ll still be here when you get back, now [...]

]]> By: Bob http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-48230 Bob Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:17:00 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-48230 Duck and cover folks, the pendulum swings one more time. Duck and cover folks, the pendulum swings one more time.

]]> By: Art http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-48228 Art Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:10:44 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-48228 I agree with what Rick Carter said above. This seems very "American." In other countries people travel miles and stay for hours in church worship "services." In China believers "gather" secretly together. Christians, especially new ones, need to gather together. Sunday worship. Bible studies. Small groups. Sunday school classes. Ministry teams. Whatever. The Bible tells us to come together MORE as we see the day of Christ's return approaching, not less (Hebrews 10:25). This can be done house to house, or corporately. I mean really, people spend 40+ hours a week at jobs around unchurched people, and probably 4 or 5 hours a week involved in Church-centered activities. I don't think anyone can really complain about "too much church" when we analyze our time. You want time with unbelievers: don't watch TV. Invite someone over at meal times. Don't be a couch potato on Saturday afternoon. Eat lunch with your coworkes... see how easy that is. :) I agree with what Rick Carter said above. This seems very “American.” In other countries people travel miles and stay for hours in church worship “services.” In China believers “gather” secretly together. Christians, especially new ones, need to gather together. Sunday worship. Bible studies. Small groups. Sunday school classes. Ministry teams. Whatever. The Bible tells us to come together MORE as we see the day of Christ’s return approaching, not less (Hebrews 10:25). This can be done house to house, or corporately. I mean really, people spend 40+ hours a week at jobs around unchurched people, and probably 4 or 5 hours a week involved in Church-centered activities. I don’t think anyone can really complain about “too much church” when we analyze our time. You want time with unbelievers: don’t watch TV. Invite someone over at meal times. Don’t be a couch potato on Saturday afternoon. Eat lunch with your coworkes… see how easy that is. :)

]]> By: Tim Moore http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-48225 Tim Moore Fri, 01 Jan 2010 16:39:42 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-48225 Tony, I have been wrestling with this and I'm in fact preaching on this very same thing through a series called "The Chair" (traditional church vs. missional minded church). We have done all we can to streamline church, simplify it to only a few things. We have seen great growth over the past year and a half as well (albeit not all from that change). However, we keep running into a situation with new believers (and we have had many in this past year). They are having a hard time learning how to make disciples, read their bibles, etc in this simplified model. While we promote small groups (sadly about only 30% engage). We offer many times to serve in the community and through the local church. Many of them do...and yet still feel like they are missing community. More so after they gave their life to Christ. Many don't want to go out drinking with their friends from work, but crave Christian friends to learn from. We had one single guy who did not believe in Christ but wanted to meet some people & start coming to our church months ago. He sought out a church to find friends. It took several months and he finally confessed his faith in Christ. But now he struggles, because he doesn't feel like he has anything for him. (Granted it doesn't help he is a single and wants to connect with other singles). Even though he understands our non-self centered approach to church, he feels almost like Christian community is almost discouraged (which is NOT true). But that is how the message of a simple missional church is coming across to him. I guess the real question I have for this idea is "How do you lead people (especially new believers) to read their own Bible and make disciples if you have no clear path (small group or mentorship) to help them do that?" One hour per week in corporate worship/teaching won't really give them the tools to do that. Honestly, I love this concept and have been leading our church in this direction (even with kickback from some "churched" people). While it has helped us reach many more, we have encountered other concerns with how we accomplish this with so many baby Christians (without having a small group network or some way to connect them to other Christians they can learn from). Good thoughts to engage, but I'm not quite sure where I've landed either. Tony, I have been wrestling with this and I’m in fact preaching on this very same thing through a series called “The Chair” (traditional church vs. missional minded church). We have done all we can to streamline church, simplify it to only a few things. We have seen great growth over the past year and a half as well (albeit not all from that change).

However, we keep running into a situation with new believers (and we have had many in this past year). They are having a hard time learning how to make disciples, read their bibles, etc in this simplified model.

While we promote small groups (sadly about only 30% engage). We offer many times to serve in the community and through the local church. Many of them do…and yet still feel like they are missing community. More so after they gave their life to Christ. Many don’t want to go out drinking with their friends from work, but crave Christian friends to learn from.

We had one single guy who did not believe in Christ but wanted to meet some people & start coming to our church months ago. He sought out a church to find friends. It took several months and he finally confessed his faith in Christ.

But now he struggles, because he doesn’t feel like he has anything for him. (Granted it doesn’t help he is a single and wants to connect with other singles). Even though he understands our non-self centered approach to church, he feels almost like Christian community is almost discouraged (which is NOT true). But that is how the message of a simple missional church is coming across to him.

I guess the real question I have for this idea is “How do you lead people (especially new believers) to read their own Bible and make disciples if you have no clear path (small group or mentorship) to help them do that?” One hour per week in corporate worship/teaching won’t really give them the tools to do that.

Honestly, I love this concept and have been leading our church in this direction (even with kickback from some “churched” people). While it has helped us reach many more, we have encountered other concerns with how we accomplish this with so many baby Christians (without having a small group network or some way to connect them to other Christians they can learn from).

Good thoughts to engage, but I’m not quite sure where I’ve landed either.

]]> By: Ron Sweet http://tonymorganlive.com/2009/02/27/the-new-traditional-church/#comment-48222 Ron Sweet Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:45:06 +0000 http://tonymorganlive.com/?p=3155#comment-48222 Great thoughts Tony. I've been wrestling with these same thoughts. I think you're on to something. Great thoughts Tony. I’ve been wrestling with these same thoughts. I think you’re on to something.

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