I miss being in ministry. Up until about 12 years ago, I used to be engaged in a leadership role in the marketplace that looks very different from my role today. I used to interact with folks on a daily basis who were searching for hope and healing and purpose in their lives but didn’t know where to find it. I used to have influence in my marketplace role that allowed me to be connected with sharp people outside the church. I used to be able to bring a biblical influence to the real world. Then, one day, I walked away from ministry.
I took a leadership role in the church, and my influence changed. I no longer get to hangout with “normal” people. Most of my life is spent with people who who think and believe like me. I no longer get to directly influence the lives of leaders outside the church. The title “pastor” shuts down conversations. I don’t get to live life with people outside the faith. For the most part, my life revolves around people who have already committed their lives to Christ.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not second-guessing my calling. I wouldn’t go back. I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing. But let’s face it…this really isn’t ministry. I encourage God’s people to do ministry, but I’m not really in ministry. I challenge church leaders to embrace new methods of outreach, but I’m not directly engaged in outreach. I get tastes of it in how I live out my life, but it’s not the primary pattern of my life. I’m primarily with Christ-followers. That’s not real ministry.
The vast majority of people in the church are still called to ministry. They’re not called to do what I do.
I just wanted to admit that there are times when I’m jealous of those who are still in ministry.
Tony,
I just left the business sector after 15 years in strategy and process improvement to plant a church here in Memphis, TN. I can definitely see your point and have immediately noticed the shift in people’s thinking when I speak with them now with my title being “Pastor.”
I am going to work like crazy to figure out how to stay connected with the “real world” and hope I can pull it off!
Jonathan
Tony,
When I left “professional” ministry years ago, a wise friend once told me: “It’s better to be good for nothing than to get paid for being good.” We can debate the theology of the goodness thing, but I like the sentiment.
Thanks for shining light on this often overlooked truth.
Greg
Tony, I really appreciate you blog and your work. And I know that sometimes blogs are to stir up and set-up tension. So, here’s a comment to stir up. I agree with what you said and I also disagree. I think sometimes we pastors are guilty of black-white, either-or thinking, especially in the current church culture. As I read your blog, I feel like I read something caught up in that thinking. I believe I know what you are saying, but at the same time I believe I am faithfully serving God in “ministry” as I serve full-time and get a paycheck. I don’t see myself as NOT in ministry simple because I do this full-time. I’d say that most pastors would agree with that. So, for what it’s worth, people I classify anyone as in ‘ministry’ whether they are ‘double-honored’ (get a paycheck) or receive no remuneration from it.
Wow Tony! That should make those of us that are “professional” minsters evaluate where our influence is, and to think about how we can change some of that so that we can do “real” ministry as well.
wow….thanks for the honest post….cut you open and bleed a bit…it’s refreshing. thanks for sharing it.
25 years ago, our senior minister “preached” his message to a young man being ordained into the ministry of the church. He told the young man that he had just committed his life to equipping others to minister, that the primary role of church staff was to equip the body of the church to all be ministers. I can’t quote any specific line from that morning, but the message has shaped my view of church staffing ever since. I was absolutely thrilled to find this in action at GCC. Why do so many churches get this wrong? Great thoughts Tony!
Knowing that this may be a semantic issue, I do not agree that what you do isn’t ministry. Enabling others to minister to still others is STILL ministry. One could argue that you didn’t walk away from ministry as much as crawled deeper into the core of it. The “messy” ministry issues you encounter, I can only assume, are likely more impactful to those you don’t even know because they are one, two, maybe three times removed from you as you work through other high capacity leaders on their behalf. The ministry scale is different.
If we seek one on one ministry opportunities, there are other ways to accomplish them… But, my question would be: who then are we serving? Others? Ourselves?
My $.02.
For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 2 Cor. 4:5.
That was almost like reading CS Lewis’s “Screwtape Letters!” I started reading and then realized I had to think about it backwards. But it makes perfect sense and dovetails with what I have been wrestling with for the past year. I have felt a call to “the ministry” but the more I look at full time ministers, the more it appears they are disconnected with the “real world” and I don’t want to be like that. Not only was this a timely thought from you in my life, but it is also a humorous and thought provoking way of looking at ministry.
BTW, also like your “If Target Operated Like a Church” article. Well said!
Well, you may not ‘minister’ to drug-heads, street-whores, CEO’s and small business owners, but YOU MINISTER TO MINISTERS. Thank you for writing and inspiring. I am ministered to each time I read.
One of your best post Tony. This should be chapter 1 in church planting or vocational ministry period!
Hello Tony,
With the men that you mentor, ASK them to invite YOU to go to lunch with them AND their CO-WORKERS when they eat lunch. Just tell them to say “My pastor just an ordinary guy who likes to hang out”. Then, try to build a friendship with their co-workers at lunch.
Have you ever HEARD of Goldmine? In my most recent job, I was a business consultant. To IMPROVE any relationship, we HAVE to BUILD upon previous contact. We HAVE to REMEMBER what was said before, or we’re just STARTING OVER with every conversation. We used a prospecting tool called GOLDMINE. GOOGLE “Goldmine Prospecting Software” for a vendor. I’m sure that this is just one software of many that can be used.
What this software allows you to do is CREATE A FILE on every one that you MENTOR. You can record their co-worker names, family names, business and organizational background to build a relationship. It also allows you to NOTE EVERY INTERACTION with those you are mentoring. You can even have it ALARM YOU when you need to follow up on ACTION ITEMS.
If you’re attempting to REACH PEOPLE FOR CHRIST, this allows you to approach WARM LEADS verses cold ones, and your success ratios in sharing Christ should come up. At the same time, you are training your mentor group by personal example on how to reach people for Christ.
I propose calling everyone that you’re mentoring at least ONCE A WEEK during the day with a PURPOSEFUL conversation based upon your notes. Also, I think to hook up with them for lunch at least once a month is a really good idea. Remember to RECORD EVERY INTERACTION.
God bless…
Let me preface this by saying that I respect your leadership and appreciate the influence that you have in the church community. And for the most part, I get what you’re saying here. Yet, I’m so tired of this kind of language in regards to the Church, Christians and the community of “believers” at large.
I commented on a post of yours a while back about the 10 dumbest things about Christians, or something like that…can’t remember.
So, what’s wrong with the church? I can’t deal with this attitude anymore that Christians are not “normal” and it sucks to hang around Christians and we’re only doing “ministry” whenever we are outside the church. Listen, ministering to those who already believe is just a valid of a ministry then leading someone to Christ. Is salvation the end all? No!!!!
It’s because of this very attitude that we are left with the Church in the condition that it’s in today. Lifeless, powerless, fruitless and in some cases even Godless (except for the alters that we’ve built up to ourselves). What happened to discipleship, mentoring, prayer, serving together, loving one another (in the church)?
Why is ministry all about the people who don’t yet believe? That’s only part of it!
Let me go a step further. I’m confident in saying that if you don’t have a heart for the church…then you have NOT been called into ministry. Part of being “called” into ministry is loving the church and serving the church and building the church.
I’m not accusing you by my statements above. I get that you’re just expressing an idea. And maybe you meant something totally different than what I got out of it. But that’s what this post stirred up in me. I’m just so tired of this sentiment that the church sucks. And in a lot of ways, it probably does. But that doesn’t mean that it’s not worth loving.
So then why post what you did if you aren’t second guessing? If I correctly understand you, maybe I do and maybe I don’t, it sounds like you are saying the Apostle Paul wasn’t “really” in ministry. His letters were written to churches and the people in them “saints of God.” He went on to say that, “I thank God that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry.” So what is it? Pastors, youth leaders, volunteers, and children’s workers aren’t in ministry? I think you are wrong and I think your post was unnecessary.
I’ve lived and worked in both worlds too, never understood why church was ministry and work was work. I always thought life was ministry – regardless of where you were. Thanks for the great post.
Thank you for such an honest piece. Two quick thoughts, and the first may partly duplicate what one or two above have said: Ephesians 4, ‘preparing God’s people for works of service’ – therefore what you do is ministry. Secondly, if you are frustrated about spending all your time with Christians, is this not an argument for a ‘missional’ approach, not having the ‘come to church’ attitude but a ‘word made flesh and dwelt among us’ style? I’m a pastor, too, and my churches assume I am there for them. In a sense I am. But my wife and I intentionally involve ourselves in our local community, too.
Just my gut thoughts. Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
Semantically ministry is service. Service can take many shapes and involve many different opportunities to grow the Kingdom.
Let’s argue by analogy. Doctors deal directly with people, save lives and relieve pain. over a lifetime they may touch thousands of lives. They are doing front line ministry. Medical professors teach and enable doctors and may see very few if any patients. But, they touch and influence many doctors. Their knowledge, through others, may save not thousands but tens of thousands over a career.
Hey,
I started off in full time ministry straight out of college. I have a Church Music degree…its what I always thought God wanted from me. But then I was at the church 5 days a week and 6 nights a week surrounded by churched people. Where was the outreach opportunity. I now serve part-time, because my heart is still in church leadership, but I have a full time job at Starbucks. It’s a terrific place to meet people. My dad likes to tell people that I left the ministry to do ministry.
Brian
Thank you for writing and inspiring. I am ministered to each time I read. I read it and found it interesting. http://www.youthforjesus.com
Freedy
Tony:
Thanks for this post. It was pure encouragement for me to read the thoughts of someone who understands the place where God has been taking my wife & me the last few years.
One year ago, I stepped out of “vocational ministry” after nearly 30 years in that line as a youth pastor and, finally, as an adult small group coordinator. I think it is true that I was a “man of the church,” yet I am also convinced that God called me into the marketplace because that is where He wants to maximize my effectiveness as His representative for the next season of my life.
Around 15 years ago, I came upon the “Everyday Commission” material produced by SonLife Ministries & Dann Spader. That may have been the beginning of my new perspective that ALL followers of Christ are His ambassadors (“missionaries” or “ministers” if you will) wherever we find ourselves – where we live, and work and play.
From my experience as a paid pastor, I can affirm your statement that the title shuts down conversation. One of my efforts to influence the unconvinced took me into a hobby that connected me with people who didn’t know what I did for a living. I enjoyed it so much, I ultimately left church work to return to the marketplace. As an aside, may I add that I refuse to call my new world “secular.” I believe that wherever God’s people go becomes “holy ground,” because He is there in us.
When I left church work, I told my friends I was looking for opportunities to extend God’s grace. Believe me… I found exactly that. opportunities to bring Jesus & His grace to people are everywhere in the “normal” world.
I don’t expect everyone to share our views on this. yet, as a good friend wisely advised me, I am through spending energy on attempts to persuade others to see my points of view. Instead, I’ll use that energy to live out the call God has on my life.
Thanks again.
Why is the focus on “ministry” and if you are doing it or not. Who cares? shouldn’t the focus be on living out your salvation in honor and service to God, through the gifts and grace he has entrusted you to steward? So it doesn’t matter what you call it, divide it, or categorize it. The american church has fixated over the word “ministry” and qualifying it various ways. Let’s get beyond that and serve and love God – living out the “Christian” life, in whatever path God leads you in.
I can relate. Being a pastor is a great job that can also be frustrating because you can feel isolated amongst believers. I enjoyed being in the work place and sitting next to those who needed to hear the Gospel. Being able to develop relationships and converse over time about what was really important. As a pastor I can still “witness” but it is usually a brief encounter that is rushed rather than a conversation that comes out of relationship. You are absolutely right in saying the members of the congregation must be doing this because the pastor will not have the same opportunities.
Tony,
I’d love to have you on “God’s Work in Progress” and talk about this. GWIP is a radio show that airs live on Monday’s at noon Pacific time. Here is a link: http://www.voiceamerica.com/worldtalkradio/vshow.aspx?sid=1619
Please contact me to move things forward. You need to be heard.
Jeff Pelletier
http://www.becominggreat.com
I appreciate this dialogue, especially how contributors authentically desire to integrate their walk with Christ with all of the realms of their lives, especially their vocation. “Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men…” Col 3:23 For 25 years God has led me to develop commercial projects in both electric generation markets and through competitive k12 public schools. while I occasionally felt an itch to go to seminary, I have found that the engagement, relevance, discipline, accountability, excellence of business has been an influential vehicle that God has used in my life to point people in His direction, to be “Salt and Light”, to be His hands and feet to His world. Business is all about stewarding assets, engaging people, creating opportunities and solving problems to meet peoples needs. I count it a privilege, what a challenge! This is why I count it a privilege to serve Christ in the business world. If you have a similar passion and are looking for like-minded peers, I encourage you to look into C12 Groups, where Christian business owners and CEO’s gather to build great businesses for a greater purpose. I was a dues-paying C12 member for six years and the value I received was priceless. Now we are serving more than 50 cities, and growing every day. Check us out at http://www.c12group.com.
Steve Hase
i get this.
but i’m a pastor because it’s what God has called me to do. that doesn’t mean i can’t have an impact on those in the “world.”
i have relationships with those on my kids sports teams, with those i play soccer with (i don’t play on a church team or in a church league), with my neighbors and with my friend’s neighbors (i started a monthly poker game for that purpose).
that i am a pastor (and they know it) has no impact on their willingness to engage me in spiritual or other conversations.