I recently connected with Dave Ferguson, Lead Pastor and Spiritual Entrepreneur with Community Christian Church and the NewThing Network, to talk with him about his new book. Dave co-authored On the Verge with Alan Hirsch. Here’s my interview with Dave:

TONY: What prompted you to write On the Verge?

DAVE: On The Verge was written in response to an urgency that both Alan and I felt that the church in North America is at a tipping point of moving in one of two very different directions: either towards extinction in this generation or a missional movement. While these are two distinctly different directions there are indicators of both possibilities. The shrinking percentage (18%) of the population that regularly attends church that would lead us to think that the North American church will go the way of Australia (10%) and Europe (2%-5%).

On the other hand there are also signs of movement. We are now starting more new churches than we are closing in United States. In addition, Alan and I were working with a dozen mega multi-site churches who are among the most influential and “successful” churches in the U.S (in the book we refer to them as Future Travelers) that were all making shifts from being primarily attractional to also being missional and sending churches. These indicators gave us great hope that that North American church is on the verge of an apostolic movement.

TONY: Though I highly respect both you and Alan, I wouldn’t expect the two of you to write a book together. How did that partnership come together?

DAVE: I read Alan’s Forgotten Ways when it first came out and thought it was one of the best books on the church that I had read in several years. So, when we invited him to speak at the Exponential Conference I took advantage of it and met him for breakfast. Despite the fact that Alan was a huge advocate of the missional-incarnational approach to church and a critic of the attractional mega church, I think he could see that what we were doing through Community and NewThing was not building a kingdom of our own, but catalyzing a movement. We hit it off immediately. Who I represent (mega, multi-site, church planting) and whom Alan’s represents (missional-incarnational) create the “both/and” thinking that we advocate in the On The Verge. We believe the best church of the future will be extraordinarily attractive because it is sent into the world to serve the world and love the world back to God. It really is our love for the church and the mission of Jesus that has brought us together.

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My dad used to own several leisure suits. Had I been smart, I would have raided his closet and kept one of them. Since I wasn’t smart enough to do that before I left home, I decided to purchase one of my own using eBay. I paid a chunk of money for it. Needless to say, Dad could have gotten rich if he would have held on to his leisure suits.

At one point the leisure suit was trendy, highly functional, everyone was wearing it, and it was easy to care for. It served a purpose: people needed to wear clothing that was functional and fashionable at the same time. What better solution than a polyester suit?

Eventually, the leisure suit went the way of the pet rock and the cassette player. They disappeared because better ideas came along. That’s the way history works.

Some churches are still wearing their leisure suits. Figuratively, of course. Many churches are stuck. Though they may have had a season where their kingdom impact was expanding, things have slowed down or started to decline. They know something has to change, but many times they’re unwilling to change. They’d rather keep wearing the leisure suit.

The leisure suit disappeared as fashion trends changed. Anyone caught wearing one was immediately branded as out of touch with reality or irrelevant. Sure, the leisure suit still serves a purpose, but almost no one wears them. Unfortunately, many churches still do! They sit comfortably watching the disco ball spin overhead wondering why the congregation is growing older and smaller. What they are doing is no longer connecting with today’s culture. They are not seeing the fruit.

By the way, whatever you perceive to be “traditional” churches aren’t the only churches that are stuck. Your church may have started one hundred years ago or ten years ago or even just ten months ago—but stuck is still stuck.

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I want to thank everyone who has read one of the three eBooks that we’ve released over the last eight weeks. The response to this series has certainly exceeded expectations. Here are the current stats for the three eBooks:

By the way, the newest one, Big Churches Getting Bigger, has only been out for a couple of weeks. It’s generated some fun dialogue with readers. In case you’re wondering, it’s not really intended for “big” churches. In fact, I had churches of every shape and size in mind when I wrote it.

What’s most encouraging is the number of stories I’m hearing from pastors who are using the free downloads in their staff and ministry team conversations. They were built with that in mind.

In case you missed the opportunity the first time around, here are the links to all three of the eBooks in this series. Feel free to share them with your friends.

Later today, I have a call with Ben Stroup. He and his team have been working with me to produce my next writing project. Beginning this summer, I’ll be releasing a new series of eBooks. It’s called The Leisure Suit Series. Here’s a sneak peek of the cover from the first eBook in that series.

One reason I’m particularly excited about this new series is that Church Community Builder will be partnering with me on this project. As I’ve written previously, Emily and I have decided to donate any profits from this project. Church Community Builder has agreed to provide a substantial contribution to Engage Burkina. Over the next couple of weeks, I’m going to share more about what Engage Burkina is doing to bring the Gospel to one of the poorest, and most illiterate countries in the world. I want to give you a chance to partner with Church Community Builder and me to support this organization.

In the mean time, I just wrapped up a series of three eBooks that you may want to download. As with all the eBooks in The Leisure Suit Series, all of these previously released eBooks are available for free. You can read more about these free resources on my website.

One more thing… If you happen to have a leisure suit, I’d like to see your picture wearing it. Email me with the shot. You never know where it might show up.

Most of my readers are familiar with Catalyst, the next-gen leadership conference that takes place in Atlanta, SoCal and Dallas and now has one-day events all over the country. What you might not know is that Catalyst is owned by GiANT Impact, a leadership development organization who also puts on the Chick-fil-A Leadercast event. The CEO of GiANT, Jeremie Kubicek, has just released a new book called Leadership is Dead: How Influence is Reviving It, and he’s taken a few minutes to let me interview him.

TONY: First off, do you really think that leadership is Dead?

JEREMIE: In some people leadership is more than dead, it is non-existent. You see, those who lead for their personal status, wealth or ego have no true influence in the lives of others. They may have authority, but people are not following them with loyalty or respect. Leadership is dead in these types of people.

TONY: There are a lot of books out there on leadership, what sets this one apart? To be blunt, why does it matter?

JEREMIE: Leadership is Dead is written to give people a different perspective of power. Leadership is a vehicle, not the end goal. This book gives practical examples on how to overcome themselves and how to truly influence people for everyone’s benefit.

Most leadership books are full of principals on leadership. Very few deal with the realities of relationships, power and overcoming self-preservation. My writing of this book came in response to leaders asking me how to influence others. That is what sets this book apart.

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As a gift to my readers and the participants of this week’s Exponential Conference, today is the official launch of my new eBook, The New Traditional Church. This eBook includes a compilation of articles that generated a lot of interest on my website. Ben Stroup has, once again, helped me refresh the content and add some new features to encourage conversations and action steps with your ministry teams.

I’m partnering with some great organizations to make each of these eBooks available. This resource developed through my relationship with Exponential. I love what Todd and my friends at Exponential are doing to equip and inspire leaders to encourage reproducing faith communities. I’ll be at the conference this week to teach a few breakout sessions. Hope to see you there!

And, since church planters are cheap (you know you are), you can purchase the eBook or borrow it for free through the Amazon Prime lending program. With that in mind, I hope you’ll share this link with your ministry teammates and friends. I’ve intentionally offered these resources so that you can use them to start conversations. Seriously, this topic in particular should be processed with friends.

I hope you are challenged by this eBook. After you’ve read it, come back here to share your questions, your learnings and your push back. Are you part of the new traditional church?

Join the conversation by adding your comment.

Scott Williams

My friend, Scott Williams, just released his first book, Church Diversity: Sunday the Most Segregated Day of the Week. I caught up with Scott earlier this week to ask him about the book and its challenging contents. Here’s the interview:

TONY: What’s the motivation for you writing this book?

SCOTT: As far back as I can remember I have always been intrigued and interested in issues of race an ethnicity.  This is mostly due to my unique life experience, specifically as a minority interacting within the majority culture.  Over the years that intrigue turned into a passion and calling.  As a pastor, I truly believe if we want to have an opportunity to reach “everyone” or “all nations” for Jesus, diversity has to matter.  Culture, corporate America, sports and almost every entity is beginning to figure this out — every entity except for the local church. Unfortunately, the local church is lagging behind.  I want to be a part of elevating the conversation and share practical steps towards positive change.

TONY: This may be a surprise to you, but I’m very white. What are some first steps a guy like me can take to encourage diversity in my church?

SCOTT: Tony, I didn’t know that you were white.  Just kidding!  After confronting the elephant in the pew and acknowledging that lack of diversity is a problem, I think one of the first steps is to do what I refer to in the book as, “Check your heart.”  Begin to ask basic “heart” questions about where you stand, where your ministry stands and where your leadership team stands as it relates to diversity.  After you ask those questions you must be prayerful and intentional about making diversity a reality. Intentionality can come in the form of staff, media, print, teaching etc.

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I just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for reading and sharing Developing a Theology of Leadership, my newly released eBook. According to the Issuu stats, over 12,000 of you have read the eBook in the last few weeks. I hope it’s generating lots of healthy conversation. Thanks, again, to the Catalyst team for partnering with me on this project.

By the way, I’ll be releasing the second eBook next week in conjunction with the Exponential Conference in Orlando. I’ll be there on Wednesday and Thursday teaching three different sessions. Hope to see you at one of them.

Today is the official launch of my new eBook, Developing a Theology of Leadership. Amazingly, the stats indicate over 1,300 people have already read it since I leaked out the link before the weekend. I’m hoping you’ll find this resource helpful as you begin to consider who you are as a leader.

This eBook is based on a series of articles I wrote about two years ago. Thanks to the help of Ben Stroup, we’ve refreshed the content and added some new features to help you take your next steps in your leadership.

What I love about this and the next few resources I’m about ready to release is that you can’t just read them and put them on a shelf. (They’re eBooks. That would literally be impossible.) Aside from that, each eBook includes a discussion guide for you to begin a conversation with your ministry team. I’ve also included some recommended steps to take the content and “put it into action.” I’m challenging you to do that. Remember, teaching (or reading) shifts thinking, but systems shift behaviors.

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Earlier this week, Today We Are Rich, the newest book by Tim Sanders was released. The book is filled with principles to embrace values like generosity and gratitude which ultimately help produce confidence. Here are my top ten highlights from my reading:

1. “Because we were able to share, we’re worth something. By being able and willing to give, we are rich.”
2. “If you mentally chew on something too long, it will get stuck in your psyche… Analyze something too deeply, and you’ll lose touch with reality.”
3. “Never predict that another person will experience failure.”
4. “Remember, your subconscious is easily directed by your actions, and giving what you feel you lack tells it there is a surplus after all.”
5. “When you give, you need to come from a place of humility, seeking to give to others what you want for yourself. If you give because you feel sorry for the needy, you are not empowering them.”
6. “Confidence in others requires a high level of trust, one at which you are willing to let go of your control of a situation.”
7. “Leaders who don’t follow someone or something bigger than themselves will eventually become drunk with a false sense of their own power.”
8. “How can you detect your higher purpose? It lies at the intersection of a make-a-difference opportunity and your personal capabilities.”
9. “The essence of spiritual maturity is when we begin to follow a purpose and enjoy, but not be governed by, our passions.”
10. “If you pursue your commitments the way you chase your dreams, you’ll someday realize how linked the two really are.”

Visit Tim’s site to download a free excerpt from the book, or use my Amazon link to purchase a copy for yourself.