I get many questions from people who are interested in knowing how they can transition their ministries. Those are challenging questions for me, because we’ve never really faced that situation at Granger. Mark Beeson planted the church 20 years ago with a vision to reach people who had either given up on church or never given church a try. Because of that vision, Granger has a unique DNA. Because of that, I know that our story is different from the story that other churches share.

With that in mind, I thought I’d get the perspective of a good friend of mine who has led his church through a significant transition. Scott Hodge is the lead pastor of Orchard Valley Community Church in Aurora, Illinois. Scott shares part of his story in the guest post below. You can read more about him and his ministry by following his blog. Here’s what Scott had to share on this topic:

Here are a couple of thoughts about a few things that I tend to see in so many churches when it comes to change and attempting to turn a church a “new” direction.

First of all, I think it’s important that pastors understand the difference between CHANGE and TRANSITION.

Change has much more to do with adjusting the “externals” of our churches. Things like: church name, musical style, conversational style teaching, etc… Believe it or not, that is usually the easy part. At least for us it was. Thankfully, we didn’t have a bunch of “red tape” or multi-levels of bureaucracy to deal with.

Transition, on the other hand, has to do with changing the internal culture or DNA of the church (i.e. people’s hearts & mindsets.) THIS is the challenging part. And it costs. A LOT. Which is why, I think, most pastors are so afraid to go for it.

Let me get Biblical for a sec… What tends to happen over and over again for so many pastors is instead of pouring NEW wine into NEW wineskins, they instead waste tons of time pouring NEW WINE into OLD WINESKINS and then wonder why things don’t seem any different EVEN THOUGH a bunch of changes have been made. Sure, on the surface you have the “flavor” and appearance of new wine but as you dig deeper, you find that the culture and DNA of the church is the same as it’s always been. (It might look shiny on the outside, but the inside reeks like 14 day old diaper… Sorry, I have a two year old.)

I am convinced that part of the reason our culture at The Orchard looks completely different now than it did four years ago is because we literally threw away the old wineskins and as a result paid a HEAVY, HEAVY price for new ones. We lost a LOT of people, which led to the loss of a LOT of money, which led to losing almost EVERYTHING. I kid you not when I say this, but there were weeks when we thought that our next Sunday MIGHT be our last one. Now, four years later, we have almost quadrupled in size and our culture/DNA is COMPLETELY different then it was just a couple of years ago. It’s really amazing. And very, very humbling!

PS – William Bridges does a great job explaining the difference between “change” and “transition” in his book Managing Transitions.

Remember that conversation we started a few of months ago on music for weekend services? In light of that dialogue, I found the article about The Fray in the September/October issue of Relevant Magazine to be pretty intriguing. Here’s what Ben Wysocki had to say about Christian music:

"As Christians, we set out to make really honest art that is relatable and understandable for people, regardless of their religious orientation or faith background. Isaac grew up writing Christian songs in a Christian language about Christian themes and Bible verses, and then he started making friends who weren’t Christians, and they couldn’t understand what he was singing about. They couldn’t relate to it. We wanted to steer clear of those labels and a lot of baggage and make art in a way that can relate to Christians and non-Christians."

Wysocki continued, "I think we’re called to make music for more than just the Church and to make music for the unchurched people and hopefully speak a bit of life into them."

What do you think? Should Christ-followers use music to "speak a bit of life" into those that are unchurched? And, is it acceptable to use that type of music in church services? In case you’re wondering…I do.

59. There’s a difference between leading a team and leading a staff.

60. A high performance team is a group of competent individuals passionately engaged in the execution of a plan designed to solve a specific problem.

61. Team advantage = synergy instead of misaligned energy

62. Four essentials to team: (1) a clearly defined problem, (2) an agreed upon solution, (3) clearly assign roles, (4) a clear understanding of the interdepency among staff members.

63. The question we need to ask is this: What is the problem that won’t be solved if we don’t do what God has called us to do?

64. Teams dissolved when the problems are all solved. If meetings are a waste of time, you don’t know the problem or you’ve lost sight of it.

65. If there are 60% of the people in your community driving by your church each Sunday, one of your problems is irrelevant church environments.

66. If you just want to be a boss with employees, just tell them what to do. (Tony’s note: If you do this, your leaders will flee.)

67. Agreement necessitates "unfiltered debate."

68. Every team member must buy in before he will wholeheartedly pitch in.

69. Andy challenged us to create a one-sentence job description for each of our team members. That helps them understand their role.

70. A lack of clarity always results in poor execution…at which point we typically blame the person.

71. On a real team, when one person drops the ball, the entire team suffers.

72. You capture a person’s heart, you’ll get their hands.

73. What without "why" feels like a task.

oops… The laptop battery is critical. I’m going to save. I’ll let you know if Andy says any more smart things this afternoon. I’m sure he will.

59. There’s a difference between leading a team and leading a staff.

60. A high performance team is a group of competent individuals passionately engaged in the execution of a plan designed to solve a specific problem.

61. Team advantage = synergy instead of misaligned energy

62. Four essentials to team: (1) a clearly defined problem, (2) an agreed upon solution, (3) clearly assign roles, (4) a clear understanding of the interdepency among staff members.

63. The question we need to ask is this: What is the problem that won’t be solved if we don’t do what God has called us to do?

64. Teams dissolved when the problems are all solved. If meetings are a waste of time, you don’t know the problem or you’ve lost sight of it.

65. If there are 60% of the people in your community driving by your church each Sunday, one of your problems is irrelevant church environments.

66. If you just want to be a boss with employees, just tell them what to do. (Tony’s note: If you do this, your leaders will flee.)

67. Agreement necessitates "unfiltered debate."

68. Every team member must buy in before he will wholeheartedly pitch in.

69. Andy challenged us to create a one-sentence job description for each of our team members. That helps them understand their role.

70. A lack of clarity always results in poor execution…at which point we typically blame the person.

71. On a real team, when one person drops the ball, the entire team suffers.

72. You capture a person’s heart, you’ll get their hands.

73. What without "why" feels like a task.

oops… The laptop battery is critical. I’m going to save. I’ll let you know if Andy says any more smart things this afternoon. I’m sure he will.

Dr. Charles Stanley took the platform for this morning’s session. I hope I can get these notes down, because I tend to get mesmerized by his voice. When I grow up, I want to have a voice like that. I think Emily would swoon every time I speak. I like it when Emily swoons.

51. Don’t run because you face conflict. If you start running, you’ll never stop. There will always be conflict. Wherever there’s change, there’s conflict.

52. To be leaders, you have to be strong and courageous. Don’t show your fear. You cannot carry out your responsibility by being fearful.

53. Conflict in our ministry divides our mind. We think about it all the time. It’s a distraction that keeps us from our goals. It destroys relationships.

54. Obey God and leave all the consequences to him.

55. The message must never change. The methods can.

56. Learn to fight your battles on your knees.

57. Just tell the truth.

58. If you focus on your opposition, that’s bad. If you focus on God, that’s good. It’s easy to get distracted. Keep your focus where it belongs.

(Some of Andy’s staff team also contributed to this session.)

46. Your current system is perfectly designed for the results you’re getting. That may be great news, or that may be bad news.

47. Connect the dots. You need to figure out a way for every single volunteer in your organization to understand what they contribute to the whole.

48. The very best people are busy people. Because of that, you need to define the terms of service. What’s the commitment required?

49. Fresh starts always provide momentum. Let volunteers take a break and then start up again. (Tony’s side note: That’s why launching a new weekend series every 5 or 6 weeks is so important.)

50. Eliminate the competition. If you try to do everything, you’ll run out of volunteers. One of the questions that’s asked around NP is this: Where do we have competing systems?

51. ………..

Sorry, it’s a panel session. I lost focus. Nothing against the speakers. It was just too late in the day for me to engage in this session.

By the way, if you ever have to plan a conference, I recommend you avoid scheduling a panel discussion for a keynote session. I’ve never seen one work. Let’s face it, if North Point can’t pull off a panel, no one can pull off a panel.

19. God works through systems. For example, your body is a complex system designed by God. It’s systematic and predictable. God created systems. That doesn’t make him small. Likewise, God works through systems in our ministry. Systems aren’t secular.

20. You can pray your heart out for change to take place in your church, but change will not take place without change to your systems.

21. Your church is a conglomeration of systems. You can’t pray that away. You can’t faith that away. You can’t inspire that away. You can’t preach that away. Somebody has to address those systems.

22. McDonalds and Coke have accomplished their "great commission." We say, "That’s the worlds way." Maybe not. Maybe it’s God’s way. God works through systems.

23. There are some organizational systems that impede ministry. In effect, we are resisting the Holy Spirit.

24. Some systems free leaders and some obstruct leaders.

25. "I may not be right, but I’m going to be critical."

26. I know a pastor that is supposed to lead his church but a separate committee hires the staff. "That’s stupid." It’s obstructing ministry in his environment.

27. When you don’t understand systems thinking, you always blame the players.

28. Systems create behaviors. For example, if you’re a youth pastor, your teaching can’t outweigh the influence of a dysfunctional family system. Or, if you’re a parent, the wrong system of friends trumps what you teach at home.

29. The systems you inherit, adopt or create will eventually impact what staff and volunteers do.

30. The reason people are not inviting friends to attend services and events in your church is because you have a system that discourages people from doing that.

31. If you have to get up on the platform and beg people to do something (like recruit volunteers), that’s a system problem.

32. Anytime you hear, "our people just won’t," you’re listening to someone who doesn’t understand systems. They’re blaming people instead of addressing the systems. (Tony’s note: And these people are not leaders. They’re just whiners.)

33. Components of a system include: expectations/rules, rewards (or lack of), consequences (or lack of), communication (content and style) and behavior of those in charge.

34. What’s rewarded gets repeated.

35. Systems have a greater impact on organizational culture than do mission statements.

36. This principle explains why it is so difficult to transition a church.

37. You can’t change, add or delete programs to change a church or change lives. Programming doesn’t change behavior.

38. The NT does not present us with a comprehensive system model. We discover what the early church did, but it doesn’t instruct leaders what to do.

39. Always ask the question: Is this what we are told to do or is this just what they did? Is it prescriptive or descriptive?

40. Delegation, accountability, authority, interdependence, point leadership and seeking counsel are all examples of systems outlined in the OT and NT. There’s nothing to suggest congregational rule is an appropriate system for a church.

41. Your system should allow you to involve and hire the best person for the job. If you hire great people, great things happen.

42. Your system should provide you with the flexibility to get the right people to the table to make decisions.

43. Your system should allow you to make complex decisions within the context of a small group of empowered individuals. You cannot effectively communicate complicated information to a lot of people.

44. Your system should ensure that only person answers to "they." At North Point, Andy is the only person that works for a group. You can’t answer to a boss and a committee.

45. Romans 12 indicates leaders need to "govern diligently." This is all about the systems.

Sitting here at the Drive Conference at North Point. Andy Stanley is on the platform. He’s going to share some good stuff over the next few days. I thought I’d try to capture all the smart things that Andy says over the next few days. So, here’s the beginning of the list. These are the smart things Andy said… part one:

1. We’re not there yet. And we won’t be.

2. We all do ministry in communities where people think church is for church people. That’s the type of world we live in. People care about God. People want to connect with God. There’s a hunger for God, but the church is in the way. "I’m giving the rest of my life to change that."

3. The church ought to be the magnet. It should be irresistible. If we’re the body, we should be irresistible.

4. Sinners liked to be around Jesus. They liked him, but they were nothing like him.

5. Leaders are very dissatisfied unless there’s progress.

6. Since the beginning of the church, the "insiders" have been making it difficult for the "outsiders." From the very beginning, the church has tried to change the outsiders before they can connect with the church. (Acts 15)

7. If we create obstacles for people to connect with the church and God, we are working against God.

8. The majority of churches have made it difficult for people to turn to God.

9. The Gospel should be easy and accessible.

10. For some reason, there’s something in us that wants to make church a formula. We make it difficult for people who are turning to God.

11. The gravitational pull of your ministry is to create insider language, rules and programs that makes it more difficult for people to turn to God.

12. The only people that really love a big church are the pastors. It’s a hassle for everyone else.

13. We had to create empty seats at optimal times in order to make room for people who were unchurched. Otherwise, I would have just been talking to the Christians.

14. This is the difficult question we need to continuously ask: Is it still easy and accessible here?

15. When a local church gets off-mission, God gets uninterested. God says, "They don’t need me."

16. We made a fundamental decision years ago that we were going to be more committed to reaching people than keeping people.

17. We’re not here for the party going to Heaven.

18. Are you willing to take a critical look at your organization or ministry team and determine whether or not you’re unintentionally making it harder for people to take steps toward Christ?

by Theresa Hoeft, Guest Blogger

I recently sat in a workshop, and we were given information about a company that will have someone come and “mystery shop” your church. You can pick out the demographics, gender and age of the person. Over the next several months, they will visit (without anyone knowing…not even you!) and then they will send you a 20-some-page report on their experience.

I can see how this would be a really helpful tool. To have someone come through for the first time, virgin eyes so to speak, could be a very useful tool…but something was missing for me. I didn’t hit me until we were able to “visit” our church with some new friends.

Because they were nervous about the visit, they had us meet them in the parking lot. We got to walk in, be greeted, walk through the halls, check their kids in, get a coffee, sit through the service, check their kids out and walk back out to the parking lot all through the eyes of a couple that have never seen anything like our church. It was amazing. We gave them freedom to ask any questions, comment on anything they saw…good or bad, comfortable or uncomfortable, and we just listened.  We told them there was nothing they could ask or say that would hurt our feelings or friendship. It was all about them.

They had some great questions. They asked some theological questions and then some general “why” questions. But what hit me the most was what they asked at the end of the visit. “If we are going to give our money and our time to this church, really, where does it go and what do you really stand for?” 

This is what separated the “mystery shopper” from the real deal.  This couple was looking at this as an investment of their time and money. This was a place that was going to impact and shape their children. This was a place that they would spend time at, which means not spending time somewhere else. Was it worth it? There was an emotional part of the process that I don’t think any “mystery shopper” could tap into.

Take time to walk in with new people…really walk in…front to back. Give them freedom to ask questions–any question. But most of all don’t get offended or defensive. Be ecstatic with the fact that something is stirring in them that is making them even ask.

Theresa Hoeft is on staff at Granger Community Church where she facilitates ministry experiences to help people take their next steps toward Christ beyond our weekend services.

As I mentioned the other day, Mark, Kem and I spent a few days at NewSpring Church in Anderson, South Carolina. In addition to surviving two of the three showers I took, we spent quite a bit of time with Perry Noble and his leadership team. It was an incredible experience. God is doing amazing things through this church. In fact, the NewSpring story really blows five big myths out of the water:

Myth #1: You have to be in a big community to have a big church. NewSpring had almost 7,800 people in attendance this weekend. The church is located in a town of 25,000 people. There are only 175,000 in the entire county. They’re reaching about 1 out of every 22 people that live in their county. That’s a staggering percentage.

Myth #2: You have to water down God’s Word to reach a lot of people. Perry doesn’t water down anything. He’s probably the most "in your face" communicator I’ve ever heard. In the message I heard on Sunday, Perry hit tough issues like sex before marriage, cohabitation and pornography. And, on the flip side, he taught about sanctification. In all of this, he was jumping all over Scriptures to back up every point of his message. Perry doesn’t back away from the Truth.

Myth #3: It has to be boring to be church. There’s never a dull moment at NewSpring. The team uses lots of humor to help people connect with the message and each other. In one moment the teaching stretches your understanding of God. In the next moment the humor grabs your attention and prepares your heart to hear more truth.

Myth #4: Big churches are all about a big personality. NewSpring reminded me that growth usually happens when a team of people commits to fulfilling a mission from God. NewSpring has a great team. Their staff is incredibly talented and committed to helping people take their next steps toward Christ. And, there are 1,400 people who aren’t paid by NewSpring that are volunteering their time and gifts to reach people for Jesus. God isn’t working through one person at NewSpring–he’s working through about 1,500 people.

Myth #5: Growth is incremental. Many times that may be the case in ministry. But, there are some instances, when the Holy Spirit moves through a congregation and revival happens in a community. When God moves and the church cooperates with God’s agenda, amazing things can happen. Eight months ago, NewSpring was "only" averaging 4,000 people. Today, they’re almost twice that size. Yes, it’s a God thing. But it’s much more than that. And, if you’re interested in leading a growing ministry, you would be wise to study what’s happening at NewSpring.

Thanks, Perry, for inviting us to join you. We had a great time. You and your team stretched our vision for the impact the local church can have on a community.