Answer: Perry leads us through an initial debrief of his message and the arts programming at the Anderson campus immediately after the first service. Basically, he wants to know what did and didn’t work that may need to be tweaked for the remaining Sunday services. First thing on Monday morning, I have a conference call with the campus pastors to debrief the service experience at their campuses. (Right now, that’s just the Greenville campus.) Among other things we discuss:

• What was the response like to the message? Was there anything that didn’t translate on video?
• What issues, if any, were there with guest services (parking, greeting, kid’s ministry check-in, etc.)?
• How did the arts programming work with the message?
• What trends are we noticing with the numbers (attendance, kids, parking, giving, etc.)?

There are other meetings during the week when we plan what’s going to happen in each service and discuss other ministry issues outside of the Sunday services.

• First of all, what’s a “transformational mindset?” Please have patience. I know I’m not the brightest crayon in the box.
• Are you saying we should embrace less-than-excellent Bible teaching? Is it OK for us to just give 75% effort in serving others?
• If the business world has abandoned excellence, why did Starbucks recently close all their stores to train all their baristas to make a better espresso?
• Do you think God wants us to embrace “average” or “mediocre” instead of excellent? If not, help me better understand your position.

Just in case you’re wondering, I do think there are times when holding too tightly to excellence can be a detriment to churches. For example:

• It’s a problem when we pursue excellence at the expense of action. Sometimes we need to be more willing to launch the beta version even though it has flaws.
• It’s a problem if we let our expectations for excellence turn into an expectation for perfection.
• It’s a problem when we let excellence become an excuse for not delegating or empowering others.
• It’s a problem when we let excellence get in the way of doing what God has called us to do.

That said, are you willing to share your thoughts on this topic and hopefully teach me something new in the process?

Granger Community Church All-Church Survey (PDF format)

You can find other leadership downloads from Granger including forms and manuals on WiredChurches.com.

We have children’s ministry during our weekend services for birth through fifth grade. All the older students are in the weekend services. Middle School has a weekly gathering on Wednesday night. High School meets on Sunday night.

If you’re keeping score at home, you may have noticed that we average 1 child for every 3.65 adults in the auditorium. I thought that was high until Gary responded with some amazing stats. In the first 18 months of ministry, his church had one baby born for every 7 adults that attend. Now they have 1 child for every 2 adults in the auditorium. Since I already have four kids, I’ve decided I’m never going to Gary’s church–the odds are too high I’ll end up with number five.

Letter #7 – What is the seating capacity in your auditorium?  Are you guys doing 3 on Sunday in order to get more people in? How full are your services? –from Mark in Cypress, CA

Another Dude, this is a very interesting question. For starters, I must be honest and question your intelligence. Haven’t you heard? Granger is located in Indiana. It’s cold. It snows…a lot. The landscape is completely flat. We have cornfields. We’re called Hoosiers. Granted, it’s a step above living in Iowa, but why in the world would you consider moving your family to Indiana?

That aside, if you’re planning on getting hired at Granger Community Church this is what you’ll need to do:

1. Move to Granger, Indiana.
2. Begin attending Granger Community Church.
3. Commit your life to Christ and follow him passionately.
4. Get plugged into ministry.
5. Demonstrate your ability to lead others effectively.
6. Add so much value to the ministry that we have to invite you to join our staff team.
7. Continue serving faithfully.
8. Serve faithfully.
9. Serve faithfully.
10. Oh, looks like we’re at  a place where we may hire someone to lead that area of our ministry.
11. Serve faithfully.
12. Serve faithfully.
13. Hmmm…maybe we should talk to Another Dude and see if he’s interested in stepping into full-time ministry.
14. Serve faithfully.
15. Let’s have him submit an application. We should probably also talk with these other people who have served faithfully, demonstrated their commitment to Christ and this ministry and have shown that they have towering leadership capacity.
16. Serve faithfully.
17. Serve faithfully.
18. Go through extensive interview process. Submit to grueling interrogation.
19. Wait patiently for someone to decide whether or not you’re a good fit for the team and the specific role.
20. Get hired at Granger.

It’s a simple 20-step process. And, after you complete those 20 steps, of course, there’s no guarantee you’ll ever get hired, but you will have the opportunity to volunteer on a great ministry team that’s committed to helping people experience life transformation through a relationship with Jesus. It’s rewarding and wildly fun.

Oh…by the way…we have about 1,400 other people just like you that have already made it through at least step 4.

Now you know how to get hired at Granger. Sometime soon, I’ll share why we do it this way.

OK, Jim. For starters, "committee" is a bad word around Granger. In fact, I think committees generally make it more difficult for people to connect in ministry. In a former life, I attended church committee meetings. Lots of people sat around complaining about lots of topics and very little, if any, ministry was accomplished. At Granger, we only have one board with lay people that oversees the mission, vision and values of our church. Everyone else is volunteering on a ministry team. One big advantage of that decision is that we now have more people in ministry rather than in meetings.

On the other hand, these are the three primary ways people connect into volunteer roles at Granger:

1. Shoulder-tapping — We ask people who are already serving in ministry to invite their friends. Because there’s already an existing relationship, people are more likely to enjoy serving. And, they’re more likely to stick with it for the long run. As Tim suggested in Simply Strategic Volunteers: "If the pastors or church staff members [or committees if you have them] are the ones solely responsible for finding and placing new volunteers, then the growth of the church will be limited….All leaders and volunteers must believe that it is their responsibility to ‘tap the shoulders’ of the folks next to them and invite them into ministry."
2. Promoting Connection Opportunities — Most often times this is happening through the website or through the weekly newsletter. We don’t promote very many opportunities through the bulletin and we rarely promote anything from the platform. When we list available roles, the ministry teams are contacted directly (it’s automated through the web and newsletter). The teams take care of follow up communications with the people who respond. They make sure those that have said they’re interested are invited to an orientation, audition, training session or directly into a serving role. And, depending on the nature of the role (like children’s workers), there may be an application process and background checks before people can serve.
3. Attending a Spiritual Gifts Class — We teach the Purpose-Driven class materials that Rick Warren developed. Class 301 focuses on helping people identify their SHAPE (spiritual gifts, heart, abilities, personality, experiences). Once people determine their SHAPE, we have a team of volunteers that provides coaching on various ministry roles that might be a good fit. That team is also responsible for follow up to make sure people have made a ministry connection.

Tim and I cover this topic in much greater detail in our one-day workshop that we host a couple of times each year on the Granger campus. You may learn more about that opportunity at WiredChurches.com. (Here’s a little secret. We’re going to take this workshop on the road in 2006. I’ll tell you more about that in the coming weeks.)

Do you think Jesus was just addressing the law versus grace issue or do you think that same teaching applies to what we’re asking people to do in our ministries today? As we ask people to commit to spiritual disciplines, attend services, participate in events, serve in ministry, connect in groups, reach out to people in need and build relationships with those outside the church–all of which can be helpful in our spiritual growth–are we creating "impossible religious demands?" What’s our responsibility to "ease the burden" in people’s lives? Is that part of our responsibility as ministry leaders?

Just thinking out loud…

Mark, I’m glad you sent your message, because it’s created a great deal of conversation on my blog the last few days. As promised, this is how much I make. All you have to do is follow this simple formula to calculate my salary or anyone else’s:

1. start with your metric weight
2. multiple that by the number of suits that you own
3. add the zip code where you live
4. subtract the number of career home runs Duane Kuiper had with the Cleveland Indians
5. divide by the square root of your mother’s age
6. do something with "pi"
7. then ask your boss how much he’s going to pay you

You didn’t really think I was going to tell you how much I make, did you?

Let me try to give you some guidance, though, based on how we try to establish wage levels at Granger. When we’re setting salaries, we primarily consider performance and ministry/leadership capacity. Additionally, we take into consideration responses to questions like these:

• What do "normal" people in our area make for similar roles? (We can’t compete with marketplace employers, but it helps us get a general idea of what similar positions pay.)
• What do similar positions pay within our organization?
• What would it cost to replace this person? How easy would they be to replace?
• What do other churches our size pay? (This question obviously applies more to pastor and director-type roles where we may be competing with other churches to keep our talent.)
• What can we afford? (It’s pretty safe to say we’d typically love to pay our staff more; however, we need to balance that with being good stewards of the resources God has provided for ministry.)

The best place I’ve found for external wage comparisons with other churches is the National Association of Church Business Administration. For a small annual fee, you can use their online compensation data to analyze wage levels by position  based on factors like budget size, attendance, denomination, region, etc. Of course, this is no exact science. A position, even with the same title, in one church, may look very different in another church. That’s why external comparisons can’t be the only factor you consider.

For more insights on how we determine compensation levels at Granger, you may check out chapter 61 in Simply Strategic Stuff, "If you can’t pay your employees well, you have too many employees."

And, if all else fails, just follow the formula I outlined above. It really works!

I think I’ll post the answer on Friday. That seems like a good day to do it. That way you have the whole weekend to talk about it at the donut shop and in your Sunday school class. I think my boss is going to be out of town beginning on Friday. Since he’s reading my blog, I better wait until he’s not around. I don’t think he likes it when I tell other people about these types of details. It’s just a blog, though. No one’s reading this, are they? And, really, who cares what the Pastor of Administrative Services at Granger Community Church makes?

Friday it is.

Letter #1 – Do you allow non-believers to serve in any area of ministry? –from "K" in Sugarcreek, Ohio

Well, this is an interesting question, K. I think it depends on the ministry role and the influence that person has over others. Obviously, as a church, our primary mission is to help people take their next step toward Christ. That means if we’re looking at a position in the church where someone might have relational influence or leadership influence or congregational influence, we certainly want them to be Christ-followers.

There are a number of serving opportunities in the church, however, where "non-believers" can volunteer. Examples at Granger might include helping at the food pantry, building a Habitat home, passing out service bulletins, playing the guitar, or directing traffic. Some people don’t connect with God until they connect with others in a serving relationship. It’s through that relationship that they begin to consider the claims of Christ. That’s why we try to make available some easy access ministries across the life of our church where just about anyone can serve.

Letter #2 – What are some suggestions for starting a Saturday night service? –from Kevin in Aurora, IL

Actually, Kevin, this is one of the topics we cover in Simply Strategic Growth. Let me give you some quick thoughts:

• Don’t do anything on Sunday morning that’s not also offered on Saturday night.
• Make Saturdays unique by offering more than people might get on Sunday morning–more music, more food, more drinks, more fun for kids, etc. Check out the Saturday Night eXtras at Granger.
• Advertise what’s happening on Saturday night to your Sunday morning crowd. Newcomers may not be aware they can have a better service experience on Saturday evening that allows them to sleep in on Sunday.
• Challenge people to shift for six months. The vast majority of people who’ve done this at Granger would never go back to Sunday now. They love Saturday evening services.